Full time residents

Does anyone have any information as to what is the number of full-time residents in Walton County? And what exactly constitutes a full-time resident? Owning and/or living in your primary home?

Also, does anyone know what is the percentage of homes occupied by full-time residents at Seaside, Seacrest, Grove by the Sea, Watercolor and Rosemary Beach? Just curious.

Thank you

We are full time residents of Watercolor and know of about 18 other couples who are as well. By this I mean that we live here year round.

Does anyone have any information as to what is the number of full-time residents in Walton County? And what exactly constitutes a full-time resident? Owning and/or living in your primary home?

walton county census info
www.waltonbusiness.com
www.beachesofsouthwalton.com
These sites may answer some of your questions.

Also, does anyone know what is the percentage of homes occupied by full-time residents at Seaside, Seacrest, Grove by the Sea, Watercolor and Rosemary Beach? Just curious.

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We are full time residents of Watercolor and know of about 18 other couples who are as well. By this I mean that we live here year round.

Santiago:

Sigh, lucky you! For those of us who hope to spend more time in SoWal in the coming years, what's it like to live year round in the area. What are the many positives? Any negatives? Any advice for people planning to spend long periods of time in the area someday. Things to do that full-timers do that others may not do?

Thanks... this helps with the dreaming...

Does anyone have any information as to what is the number of full-time residents in Walton County? And what exactly constitutes a full-time resident? Owning and/or living in your primary home?

Also, does anyone know what is the percentage of homes occupied by full-time residents at Seaside, Seacrest, Grove by the Sea, Watercolor and Rosemary Beach? Just curious.

Thank you

Isn't a full-time resident someone who has homesteaded their property and declared residency in Walton County?

This is anecdotal info. based on families I know. Sorry I can't give you concrete numbers:

Rosemary: There are quite a few families with children in Rosemary and quite a few couples without children who live there full-time. Of all the major developments, Rosemary seems to have the most full-time residents, especially families. In my opinion, it is the best place to be with kids because there are other kids to play with in the neighborhood.

Seacrest: I know of just a few full-time residents. It is a difficult place to live year-round because most homes don't have garages and outside storage and there isn't a lot of privacy because the homes are close together. Very few children.

Grove By the Sea: There are quite a few full-time residents with and without children. It is a good place for kids and has more of a "regular neighborhood" feeling.

Seaside: Since we moved here 4 1/2 years ago, I've never met anyone or known of anyone who lives in Seaside full-time.

Watersound: Just a few full-time residents. Several families who did live there have moved to Watercolor where there is more to do. Watersound's infrastructure has a long way to go before its completed. You're pretty much on your own in Watersound--just you and the construction workers. It will be nice in about 5 years.

Watercolor: Refer to Santiago on this. I do know that there are quite a few families living there and I know several who are currently building.

Are you thinking about moving to one of these developments?

Santiago:

Sigh, lucky you! For those of us who hope to spend more time in SoWal in the coming years, what's it like to live year round in the area. What are the many positives? Any negatives? Any advice for people planning to spend long periods of time in the area someday. Things to do that full-timers do that others may not do?

Thanks... this helps with the dreaming...

As you might guess, it is great. We have young boys who have lots of friends in our neighborhood and keep very busy hanging out with them. Of the full time residents in WC, almost all of the kids are boys. There always seems to be something going on between them, usually football, surfing, and fishing. Just think of the things that most people do while on vacation here and that is what we do year round. At this point, we could not imagine living anywhere else. And believe it or not Camp Creek Kid, we probably have at least as many families with kids as Rosemary Beach.

As you might guess, it is great. We have young boys who have lots of friends in our neighborhood and keep very busy hanging out with them. Of the full time residents in WC, almost all of the kids are boys. There always seems to be something going on between them, usually football, surfing, and fishing. Just think of the things that most people do while on vacation here and that is what we do year round. At this point, we could not imagine living anywhere else. And believe it or not Camp Creek Kid, we probably have at least as many families with kids as Rosemary Beach.

I believe you. In what section of Watercolor are most of the families? What is the age range of the kids?

It will be great if SoWal continues to have a healthy mix of full-time residents and vacationers. Seems like it will be the best of both worlds and the businesses will be able to stay in business more easily year-round.

In order to have a "healthy mix" of full-time residents the area would have to have "affordable" housing and I don't see that happening in SoWal. Teachers, cops and grocery clerks needed to service a large population of full-time upscale families can't afford to live in the area (unless their hourly pay can support a $550,000 mortgage + insurance + utilities + food + transportation + taxes + etc., etc.). If developers continue to have their way, SoWal will always only be a vacation destination with the majority of neighbors being rotating LLC owners, friends and tourists.

St Joe is working on building affordable housing over here in Gulf County.
That's why they hired my husband.
People are moving here. The day I registered my son at high school, there were three other kids enrolling. Needless to say, we and the other newbies are not in the Windmark market.
Not easy finding builders, though. Apparently they are all over in SoWal.

Cil- your Christmas avatar is beautiful!!!

Thanks Jdarg. I love yours. ;-)

Thanks Jdarg. I love yours. ;-)

It came along at the right moment!

I believe you. In what section of Watercolor are most of the families? What is the age range of the kids?

We live in Phase 1 but most full timers that we know live in Phase 2. There are a lot 1st and 2nd graders and most have younger sibllings from 2 to 4 years old. There are also several teenagers.

In order to have a "healthy mix" of full-time residents the area would have to have "affordable" housing and I don't see that happening in SoWal. Teachers, cops and grocery clerks needed to service a large population of full-time upscale families can't afford to live in the area (unless their hourly pay can support a $550,000 mortgage + insurance + utilities + food + transportation + taxes + etc., etc.). If developers continue to have their way, SoWal will always only be a vacation destination with the majority of neighbors being rotating LLC owners, friends and tourists.

Shelly, I not disputing what you say, but I do have a question for you. In large cities--San Francisco, New York, Miami, Chicago, D.C., Boston--it is much more expensive to live than in SoWal. Yet, these larger cities do not have shortages of teachers, cops, and grocery clerks. The farther out of the city center one goes, the more affordable the housing, so many "regular people" live outside of the city center and commute to work every day, sometimes traveling an hour each direction.

SoWal has not gotten to that point. I don't understand why you predict a labor crisis in SoWal when all you have to do is cross a bridge (north or east) and you'll find affordable housing. I know many people who live in Andalusia, AL (about 1.5 hrs from SoWal) and choose to commute to SoWal. They WANT to stay in their home town, but are drawn to the higher wages of SoWal. Construction workers make much more here than in say, Chattanooga, TN. Why? Because subcontractors are in demand and they can charge more.

I agree CCK. There are still affordable places to rent in SoWal that most visitors don't know about. But soon it will be the island that it is with more and more workers coming from all points north of the bay. It is an easy drive now but will get to be a bear until the 4-laning of 331 is complete.

St Joe is working on building affordable housing over here in Gulf County.
That's why they hired my husband.
People are moving here. The day I registered my son at high school, there were three other kids enrolling. Needless to say, we and the other newbies are not in the Windmark market.
Not easy finding builders, though. Apparently they are all over in SoWal.

Not to worry Cil. Those builders will be rolling over to Gulf and Franklin Counties in the near future. I already hear them talking.;-)

One anecdotal way to estimate would be to look at the quantity of everyday services and retail (other than bars and restaurants) available in SoWal, the sort essential to full-time residents: Doctors, barbers and beauticians, dry cleaners, vets, grocery stores, churches, insurance agents, banks, gas stations, etc. Also the number and size of schools. Compare these to a typical small town. Adjust for business real estate cost, affluence, demographics, and excess service capacity for high season.

My street in Seagrove has 18 permanent residents, residing in 8 out of 18 houses. 2 kids, grade school age. 3 retired persons, everyone else (except the kids) working. No condos. Our area, near Eastern Lake, seems to me to have a higher-than-average percentage of full-time residents. But maybe 6 or 7 of probably 40-50 houses/condos on the first 3 rows from the beach are full-time.

By comparison, I drove through the eastern half of Seaside Thursday and it appeared empty.

I'm guessing 3,000-4,000 on all of 30A plus Pt. Wash. Any takers?

One anecdotal way to estimate would be to look at the quantity of everyday services and retail (other than bars and restaurants) available in SoWal, the sort essential to full-time residents: Doctors, barbers and beauticians, dry cleaners, vets, grocery stores, churches, insurance agents, banks, gas stations, etc. Also the number and size of schools. Compare these to a typical small town. Adjust for business real estate cost, affluence, demographics, and excess service capacity for high season.

My street in Seagrove has 18 permanent residents, residing in 8 out of 18 houses. 2 kids, grade school age. 3 retired persons, everyone else (except the kids) working. No condos. Our area, near Eastern Lake, seems to me to have a higher-than-average percentage of full-time residents. But maybe 6 or 7 of probably 40-50 houses/condos on the first 3 rows from the beach are full-time.

By comparison, I drove through the eastern half of Seaside Thursday and it appeared empty.

I'm guessing 3,000-4,000 on all of 30A plus Pt. Wash. Any takers?

There are a lot more in most neighborhoods than one might realize. I live in Watercolor so I am most familiar with it. However, I also know of many other neighborhoods with similar or greater ratios of full time to part time. Many were mentioned like Grove by the Sea and Rosemary. There are also Gulf Place and Lake Place. With that being said, its hard to count 3000 to 4000 but I would not doubt it. I know at the first day of school at Butler, there were tons of out of state tags on cars telling me that they are moving here in droves. The service businesses that are here now are many compared to when I moved here in '96.

SoWal has not gotten to that point. I don't understand why you predict a labor crisis in SoWal when all you have to do is cross a bridge (north or east) and you'll find affordable housing. I know many people who live in Andalusia, AL (about 1.5 hrs from SoWal) and choose to commute to SoWal. They WANT to stay in their home town, but are drawn to the higher wages of SoWal. Construction workers make much more here than in say, Chattanooga, TN. Why? Because subcontractors are in demand and they can charge more.

CCK, I think Shelly is on target. The least expensive home (not mobile) in Freeport will run you a good $250,000. Now I don't know about your world, but I don't think most construction workers making $10-$12/hour can afford this so called "affordable housing." Let's see, after a 10% down payment of $25,000 (what? I have to come up with $25,000), a 30yr mortgage at 6% will cost $1350 per month before taxes and insurance. Let's be conservative and say taxes and insurance total only $250 per month. The house payments are now only an affordable $1600 before utilities, groceries, health insurance, savings, entertainment, etc. Let's use the $12 per hour wage rate and say the worker earns $480 per week before taxes, and maybe only $400 per week after taxes. If this worker wants to keep his house and eat, he will need to find a second 40hour per week job with similar wages, and this is just to be able to afford Freeport on the cheap end.

The math just does not add up. When the 331 bridge is 4 laned and the $4 toll is charged each way, this worker will not only have to pay out more money to drive here through higher gas prices, but also via the tolls. It will happen. Unless the employers are willing to pass along the higher cost of doing business to the homeowners, the labor pool will dry up faster than a watering hole in the Sahara. Currently, I don't see the wages matching the cost of living in SoWal, or Freeport. The future affordable housing will be around DeFuniak Springs, and that is a long haul, and costs more in terms of gas money. Robert Davis's concept for Seaside, was based partly on the worker not having to drive to work. Just because my friends in Atl are willing to drive 15 miles in 1.5 hours, doesn't mean that we should aspire to be like them.

In "real" towns, a lot of people rent. Modest rental houses or trailers here aren't that plentiful and will gradually be replaced. There aren't many apartment complexes, either.

Worth asking - do permanent residents here really want SoWal to become a "real" town, or did they move here for the "on vacation" feel that would at least partly go away if that happened?

In "real" towns, a lot of people rent. Modest rental houses or trailers here aren't that plentiful and will gradually be replaced. There aren't many apartment complexes, either.

Worth asking - do permanent residents here really want SoWal to become a "real" town, or did they move here for the "on vacation" feel that would at least partly go away if that happened?

I for one definitely want Sowal to be a 'real' town as you say. I work here full time and love the beach but am craving more amenities and services that other slightly larger cities have. But I worry about the price the real estate getting to be so high that it drives everyone wanting to run a business out. How can businesses compete with residential sq. ft costs? Untenable.

I appreciate all the helpful feedback. I have been here 2 years but only recently discovered this site and its amazing resources.

I for one definitely want Sowal to be a 'real' town as you say. I work here full time and love the beach but am craving more amenities and services that other slightly larger cities have. But I worry about the price the real estate getting to be so high that it drives everyone wanting to run a business out. How can businesses compete with residential sq. ft costs? Untenable.

I appreciate all the helpful feedback. I have been here 2 years but only recently discovered this site and its amazing resources.

I am so glad you found this site as well!!! Tell me Chickpea...what amenities/services do you find lacking as a full time resident? And one more question...did you ever tell me what the object is in your avatar?

Seaside was designed for live/work situations from the standpoint of providing spaces conducive to both uses (i.e. retail or studio space with a living unit above), not a provision for affordable housing for service and labor workers. It was always envisioned as a luxury project, by virtue of its location, amenities, and quality of construction. Until very recently, DeFuniak Springs and other points north of the bridge provided almost ridiculously inexpensive housing options, albeit short on the rentals side. Property in and around DeFuniak has soared in value over the past year, which is inexplicable because there are no high-paying jobs there, nor are there many in the South Walton area. The prices will stabilize, then be paid by people living in more expensive areas and who see the higher prices as a reasonable alternative to retirement housing in the cities where they currently live.

Example: In our town in CA, there is not even a condo in the town that can be had for less than $750K and single-family housing starts at $1M. So even with the higher prices, South Walton (and especially areas other than coastal) seems a bargain. Retirees look for quality of life, reasonable housing prices, proximity to good medical services, recreational opportunities (especially golfing), and often proximity to a military base PX (if they're retired military). Del Webb has made a fortune on this formula throughout the country. But these buyers are obviously unconcerned with jobs. And rarely are they concerned with the availability of a reasonably priced labor pool. The bad news is that they care rarely be counted on to vote approval for needed infrastructure and services, especially the school districts. The good news is that many of them don't vote in South Walton because their primary homes are elsewhere.

Look for your labor pool to drive from distances further and further away as time goes by. Expect your future residents to be primarily absentee and part-time owners. Talk to your elected officials about requiring new development to provide an inclusionary affordable housing product aimed at the lower-income jobs that will be in increasing demand as the area develops. Expect the affordable housing to make a very minor contribution towards housing low-to-moderate income workers, and the affordable units will go into a lottery for pre-qualified buyers. The alternative is a community with little diversity and big traffic problems, no matter how many improvements are made incrementally. This is the ugly underbelly of soaring property values.

I am so glad you found this site as well!!! Tell me Chickpea...what amenities/services do you find lacking as a full time resident? And one more question...did you ever tell me what the object is in your avatar?

Hi Sueshore,
The object in my avatar is a seashell - I tried posting higher resolution pic but site would not accept.

As to amenities and services I find lacking.... before I list them I need to state that I realize I am spoiled because I genuinely dislike driving long distances (I remain amazed at the number of people I meet who regularly drive to Birmingham, Atlanta, etc. and in fact think nothing of it!) and to many people having to head to Destin or Panama City is no big deal but to me it is. I will do it when I need to because living here is worth it but I am realistic in that I feel that even if more families like mine move here as full time residents, because of real estate values, it is unlikely that we get the diversity of services we need (pediatrician, OB-gyns, getting our cars serviced, a broader range of restaurants (including ethnic ones), pursuing hobbies, arts and culture for ourselves and for our kids, etc). I know this is and remains primarily a resort destination so many of the daily needs we may aspire to are not in high demand. So be it. Right now at this point in my life Sowal is great. It still has real limitations to me but it is offset by the magnificence of its natural landscape. One can put up with a lot here.

A lot of people were very excited about getting a Publix in Seagrove, feeling it added value to their lives. A small regional supermarket, while quaint compared to the big city, are exactly what we don't need here. Besides, what can you get at Publix that you couldn't already get in SoWal except for firewood wrapped in plastic, grills without lids, and 12 different types of antacids?

Those who are looking for all the things available in larger cities should find themselves in larger cities. Continue to enjoy your vacations here, and we will remain a friendly, laid back, and welcoming place. Why would we want it to become anything else?