SoWal Incorporation

Let me say this as simply and succinctly as I can. I have never seen an individual or group make a concerted effort to establish viable zoning and development criteria with Walton County since I have lived here. If incorporation is to take place, let it be in the gripeing East end from Rosemary Beach to Grayton Beach. Leave us out of it!

bdarg, to be fair, no one is going to be allowed to build any pig farms or concrete plants on 30-A. Primarily because no one would propose building such on land that expensive. The market dictates certain things. But I would be against such if it was proposed. The beach is the golden goose, why would I want to harm it? My only stake is the taxes collected, so I want higher property values and better infrastructure. We have plenty of space in the north for concrete plants and pig growing.
I do want public accesses and available parking as well. While I do not go to the beach anymore, my children do and I anticipate my grandchild will in a few years.

Bdar, I am not sure you understood my post. I'll try taking just a sentence or two from each of your paragraphs and try again.


“I am also aware that those of us south of the bay pay most of the North County Fire District too. “


Yes, that is the case. However, if we incorporate we will still be paying county taxes and the county will still probably use some of those taxes to fund north county fire services. I don't have a problem with that. We are after all part of the county and the fact is the north does not generate enough taxes by itself to fund the services they need. I would not want to be the one to tell the north, sorry, but you can't have fire protection unless you do what south walton did and create a special district and fund it with a special tax. Let the county do that, and in fact I believe they are moving in that direction.


“Or maybe it is time that we try something different. Something that allows us to have a say in our own destiny. Something that might give us a say in how our tax dollars are spent. Something that might shine a light on and restrict the taxation and redistribution that goes on.“


There is a philosophical and political issue here and I think it is at the heart of the incorporation idea, and it relates to your complaint about north county fire services. How much of the county taxes collected in south walton should be spent in south walton, and how much should go to fund services in the north which would, without south walton tax dollars, be underfunded? I am still waiting for an incorporation proponent to spell out for me in concrete legal terms how incorporation would change the current allocation?


I personally have no issue with my south walton tax dollars being spent for WCSO, the County Clerk, the Tax Appraiser, Supervisor of Elections, Health Dept., etc. And although they are not county entities, I have no issues with the infrastructures provided by Regional Utilities and Chelco. They have kept up. I'm leaving the schools out of this, that is a whole other issue. So really, it seems to me it comes down mostly to the Planning Dept and Code Enforcement and traffic matters and issues with the TDC.


“No one wants to build their dream home just to find that the neighbor got a variance to build a hog farm or a concrete plant next door. “


I don't see another concrete plant in south walton, nor a hog farm. The land has simply become too valuable. North Walton ought to maybe think a bit about that though.


I think you have an overly optimistic faith in a new city's ability to institute modern planning and zoning. I was here when the Trust process took place and the Comp Plan was adopted. The whole idea was extremely idealistic, and the flawed result was the result of, among other things, political dealings and vested interests involving themselves in the process with other agendas. It became even more flawed as attempts to 'fix it' were contaminated by the same old politics. I was also a part of the first neighborhood plan, the Inlet Beach plan, in which residents used a tool that still exists in the current plan to create a neighborhood overlay with different standards. It was a good first attempt but it has its flaws too, and was subject to the same problems of competing agendas for a future vision. I am not saying it cannot be done, but I certainly do not think it will be cheap or easy or quick. It will be messy and contentious, all the more so because there is much less left to develop and land values are so high. You cannot just brush off the vested interests and assume everyone will be on the same page and have the same vision.


In the very first post in this thread, Lake View Too said:


“I was talking with a guy who moved here from Park City, Utah. What he said they did and what we should do is, to paraphrase, implement"planning overlays". I don't pretend to understand the concept completely, or how to implement them, either. They are basically a set of zoning ordinances specifically tailored to different needs in different areas.

Also, both Grayton Beach and Point Washington, (I think) have implemented "neighborhood plans". Again, I don't even play a planning department engineer on TV, but these seem like better remedies than trying to incorporate a quarter of a county. “


Traffic:


“Nor is there a need to hire an expensive engineering consultant to provide a solution to increase the capacity of 30A through Seagrove.The apparent finding of the state when labeling it as constrained road, would indicate that no such remedy exists”


I don't believe there are no remedies. I have never proposed buying right of ways or building bridges or any of those very expensive things. In other posts here and on fb I have pointed out that one of the main traffic problems has been created by the 30a and 395 intersection and that two solutions were on the table years ago but have gone nowhere. I have also complained repeatedly that the county has allowed private property owners adjacent to 30a to obstruct the ROW with all sorts of immovable objects. Just the other day I saw two new date palms planted in what I am pretty sure is ROW. If you are worried about fire safety a good first start would be for the county to take back all of the 30a ROW and remove all objects that currently can impede an emergency vehicle. Please explain to me how a city would acquire the jurisdiction to make these or other possible solutions a reality? I suggested a traffic engineer and a plan to take to the county because I believe that is what we need to do. I'm not willing to throw up my hands and say “no such remedy exists.”


Of course the density has greatly contributed to traffic, and that again goes back to planning and zoning. If you expect planning and zoningto be a help here, it would have to lower density on the remaining undeveloped parcels, and as I have said, I think that will be messy and lengthy.


As far as Code Enforcement and the TDC, someone needs to tell me how a city could fix those things. Spell out for me how a city would acquire jurisdiction and what it could legally do to make changes in those entities.

bdarg, to be fair, no one is going to be allowed to build any pig farms or concrete plants on 30-A. Primarily because no one would propose building such on land that expensive. The market dictates certain things. But I would be against such if it was proposed. The beach is the golden goose, why would I want to harm it? My only stake is the taxes collected, so I want higher property values and better infrastructure. We have plenty of space in the north for concrete plants and pig growing. I do want public accesses and available parking as well. While I do not go to the beach anymore, my children do and I anticipate my grandchild will in a few years.

Danny,
Hog farm and concrete plant are metaphors for whatever you would not want as a neighbor. Those are two things are extreme examples of that which most all people would agree not want next door to them, that is the stench of a hog farm, or the noise and heavy traffic of a concrete plant. Feel free to insert whatever you would not want to be built next to your home. The area being discussed is the area south of the bay, north of the gulf and county line to county line, so not necessarily just 30A.

Let me say this as simply and succinctly as I can. I have never seen an individual or group make a concerted effort to establish viable zoning and development criteria with Walton County since I have lived here. If incorporation is to take place, let it be in the gripeing East end from Rosemary Beach to Grayton Beach. Leave us out of it!

Andy,
With all due respect, you must have missed the very concerted effort about 3 or 4 years ago by a highly qualified, in fact very prestigious, group of local architects, planning professionals and others who developed a plan and gave a number of presentations to the public and to government officials, BCC, etc. It was rejected by the county without much consideration. Keep in mind that our community is very fortunate to have globally recognized experts in such matters that live here in our small community. Then, of course, the SWCC has been making a near constant effort for the better part of 20 years. The number of train wrecks the the SWCC has prevented are innumerable.

Right now there is effort to fund and complete a feasibility study of incorporation. This is the required first step in exploring the effects and determining interest, range of areas to possibly include, and level of service. There is interest from the east county line to the west county line and in every community between those two lines. I don't know how to leave out the "us" that you refer to, especially in light of the range of "include me" requests that have been received.

It is too early to make assumptions about potential city limits, services, taxes, etc. The current effort is a feasibility study, which is the formal step, and method, to educate ourselves about incorporation. Only with a feasibility study in hand we can go beyond our fears of what incorporation might mean and come to understand what it would mean. It would be nice to methodically work through the possible options. You have named two that you had not realized had been explored many times, for many years, at great expense and with great effort.

A feasibility study is an independent assessment of an area that provides information in an accurate and methodical manner. What is the harm is there in funding a feasibility study to see if just maybe incorporation can provide any potential options to improve our community? Why the rush to a wholesale dismissal of the one tool that can give us real answers about incorporation? If you are right in your guess, then it should support your guess.

I would rather live next to hog farm than live next to Bdrag.

I would rather live next to hog farm than live next to Bdrag.

I would rather live in a hog farm than in an incorporated south Walton County.

I would rather live next to hog farm than live next to Bdrag.

:nono1: that's nasty.

I fully understand a feasibility study. If it is fair, unbiased toward one decision or the other, it would be fine. I fear it will be very slanted toward incorporation and will not address both sides of the issue. We in BMB are not the same as Seaside and those areas East of us. I have said it before and will continue to say it. I, and many others, are quite content with the way things are now. We do not need nor desire wholesale "incorporation". I might also add that the former attempt failed, not only because the BCC didn't want it but the fact that local South Walton residents didn't want it either. One thing more. I keep pretty well abreast of what transpires in Walton County governance. I am not uninformed in the pros and cons of attempting to incorporate. We may have "globally recognized experts" in this matter in our small community but let me assure you we also have some educated in such affairs here in America present as well. Once again, in closing, I see no upside to my area being part of incorporation. I feel sure a referendum on the subject would bear this out. After all, it is only one educated, informed man's opinion and I have been wrong in my life before.

I fully understand a feasibility study. If it is fair, unbiased toward one decision or the other, it would be fine. I fear it will be very slanted toward incorporation and will not address both sides of the issue. We in BMB are not the same as Seaside and those areas East of us. I have said it before and will continue to say it. I, and many others, are quite content with the way things are now. We do not need nor desire wholesale "incorporation". I might also add that the former attempt failed, not only because the BCC didn't want it but the fact that local South Walton residents didn't want it either. One thing more. I keep pretty well abreast of what transpires in Walton County governance. I am not uninformed in the pros and cons of attempting to incorporate. We may have "globally recognized experts" in this matter in our small community but let me assure you we also have some educated in such affairs here in America present as well. Once again, in closing, I see no upside to my area being part of incorporation. I feel sure a referendum on the subject would bear this out. After all, it is only one educated, informed man's opinion and I have been wrong in my life before.

Are you sure about the reasons for the failure of the previous attempt? I never knew the reason but recently heard a different story. Have there ever been indications that the BCC opposed or would oppose incorporation? I know some residents did support incorporation the last time it was looked at.

Are you sure about the reasons for the failure of the previous attempt? I never knew the reason but recently heard a different story. Have there ever been indications that the BCC opposed or would oppose incorporation? I know some residents did support incorporation the last time it was looked at.

No, miznotebook, I am not positive about the reasons for failure last time. I am only going on what I was told by what I consider a reliable source. I really wasn't involved in the effort last time one way or the other. That will not be so this time around.

It would be nice if the county government would do the right thing. If would be nice if the districts were not gerrymandered. It would be nice if the commissioner that represents me, knew that my part of his district exists, let alone has problems. It would be nice if the commissioners visited the economic engine of the county during its peak season to see how their arbitrary rulings impact those who live, work and play here. It would be nice if our only chance at fair representation were not to have to go through the time, effort and expense of incorporation.

I cannot agree with this more. On the other hand, the growth of permanent/voting residents south of the bay has occurred, in terms of election cycles, in a blink of an eye. In almost every other area of the country, I'd be a relative newbie to the area. Here I'm an old timer. I've lived in Seagrove for about a dozen years and remember when the east or west Winn Dixie was the closest option for groceries (other than Modica, of course). I have a dog on both sides of the fight but appreciate those who, paraphrasing W.F. Buckley, stand athwart history yelling "stop". Everyone's a little bit NIMBY sometimes.

After reading the above report in its entirety, I am even less convinced that this is necessarily the best answer to perceived problems. There is no doubt that the biggest problem for this area is land use and the zoning thereof. If it cannot be better addressed at the county level then incorportation might be the answer. Outside of the fact that land use control is almost non-existent in SoWal, there is little use, IMO, to incorporate. Our provided and necessary services provided, such as EMS and Fire, Waste Management and Mosquito Control among others, is outstanding and very responsive when called upon. If you think that by incorporating, you will do away with many of the problems you already have, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. There has not yet been enough done in an attempt to solve our problems with the BCC and countyadministration. This should be attempted first and then look to other solutions. Also, it is time for the North part of the county to accept the fact that the South part is a growing, viable enity that can greatly benefit the county as a whole if treated properly. Work with what you already have vigorously before attempting to reconstruct what you already have, IMO.

Agree 100% Andy. "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it" applies here. One of the appealing things of living in SoWal is NOT having a city government. Another layer of government on top of county could bring about more issues/problems. Focus on better land use and zoning adjustments that will better benefit SoWal.

Agree 100% Andy. "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it" applies here. One of the appealing things of living in SoWal is NOT having a city government. Another layer of government on top of county could bring about more issues/problems. Focus on better land use and zoning adjustments that will better benefit SoWal.

There has been an exhaustive focus by multiple groups for the past twenty years or more to get the county to adhere to the existing land development code and the existing comprehensive plan with no result ( there is no zoning in Walton County. In theory it is only guided by the the comp plan and LDC). Variances to those, the only planning documents, are handed out like bumper stickers at a political rally. No rhyme. No reason. No forethought. That is how the south county got traffic jams like those on30a that back up from cr 395 to eastern lake or beyond.

"City light", which is a city that only has only planning, zoning and code enforcement functions, is the only way that south Walton is going to get "better land use and zoning adjustments".

To borrow Pastor Niemöller's famous observation, "first their lack of long term planning destroyed the property values on the other side of the county, then their lack of long term planning destroyed the property values of those down the road, then their lack of long term planning destroyed the property values of my neighbor, and my neighbors' property values were mine too".

This afternoon, June 24th, A Better South Walton will hold a special event. You are invited to"Ask the Consultant" which will provide a chance for you to ask questions directly to Joe Mazurkiewicz of BJM Consulting, Inc. He is in the process of developing a feasibility study for the A Better South Walton community initiative. This initiative will explore the options, including incorporation, that are available to us to have more input into the decisions being made on our behalf. A feasibility study is required as a part of this process to assess our options

Please join us @ 4:30 on June 24th, at 70 Logan Lane for this unique event and bring your questions. We look forward to seeing you & learning from your questions. RSVP to jjwinart@mchsi.com.


Jacquee Markel, A Better South Walton

Feasibility Study will be complete in August providing the South Walton community a wide arrary of information for a complete snapshot of numbers and info to help determine future needs and possibilities, including possible incorporation. Learn more at http://www.abettersouthwalton.com/. Sign up for the newsletter to stay informed, volunteer your time and talents, donate, get involved!

I haven't heard much talk lately about a City of "South Walton". Any news?

It came to mind as I saw an article about the meeting of Pince De Leon City Council and I thought to myself, self? Ponce De Leon has a CITY GOVERNMENT!? Dang fo they even have a stoplight? Google says 501 people live there. I guess WalCo is fine with it.

And yet SoWal City? No way! Must be all about the money and control and development.

I haven't heard much talk lately about a City of "South Walton". Any news?

It came to mind as I saw an article about the meeting of Pince De Leon City Council and I thought to myself, self? Ponce De Leon has a CITY GOVERNMENT!? Dang fo they even have a stoplight? Google says 501 people live there. I guess WalCo is fine with it.

And yet SoWal City? No way! Must be all about the money and control and development.

There was a fairly strong effort to incorporate South Walton years ago. There were three huge hurdles: The spread-out nature of SoWal, the absentee ownership of much of the land, and the biggest hurdle was that in order to get the process officially started to even have a referendum vote on it, our state legislative representative would have to sponsor it. Our representative was Brad Drake, at that time, and he refused to sponsor it.

I haven't heard much talk lately about a City of "South Walton". Any news?

It came to mind as I saw an article about the meeting of Pince De Leon City Council and I thought to myself, self? Ponce De Leon has a CITY GOVERNMENT!? Dang fo they even have a stoplight? Google says 501 people live there. I guess WalCo is fine with it.

And yet SoWal City? No way! Must be all about the money and control and development.

I'll make this simple. Look at the incorporation dates of some of our local municipalities and cross reference those to major "social issues" of the time.

Sorry for the word dance, trying to keep this so it's viewable in a Florida public school.

I always assumed it was about the county government wanting control. Specifically of money. Development. I've watched our climate change from pro environment to pro development. And the takeover of the TDC more of the same.

Takeover of the TDC?

Y

Takeover of the TDC?

They pushed out the professionals, took over the board, then made it a county department with yes man in charge. At the same time, adding NoWal tourism in to the mix to spend tourism tax money up there.

Y

They pushed out the professionals, took over the board, then made it a county department with yes man in charge. At the same time, adding NoWal tourism in to the mix to spend tourism tax money up there.

NoWal! Where "Traffic" beats out "Poorly Maintained" ...

The staff of the TDC has always been a county department. The board members, no, but the staff is.