Mount Alys

it's called something with a 'P', i think. prestige, paramount, pinnacle???

st. joe of course wanted to buy it so watersound south would be one giant piece w/out a divot in the middle, and offered what the owner thought was a ridiculously low priceand told them to stuff it. the next time they went back, it was too late/too expensive to buy. st joe has some pretty good arial(sp) photos of it(since it's smack dab in the middle of their land) at the watersound sales center.


jr

It may be PROMENANCE....drove thru there today and say the sign....
(my spelling may not be totally correct)

It may be PROMENANCE....drove thru there today and say the sign....
(my spelling may not be totally correct)

I believe it is "Prominence". Go to www.prominencefl.com to get info.

Mostly, I just like quoting my salesman, Jerry McCoy. I think he use to play football for Univ of AL. Maybe you Bama fans can look him up to tell me if he is legit.

SJ, no one by that name is listed among Alabama's football lettermen.

http://www.rolltide.com/Football/7207.asp

But letters have to be earned. He could have been a walk-on/scout teamer. Maybe.

P.S. not a Bama fan.

I have not driven down that way in a week or so. I believe Prominence has a sign posted on the property which they clear cut. From the original question, I gathered the piece to which was referred was immediately to the west of (adjacent to) Alys Beach. If so, that is not Prominence. Prominence is located adjacent to WaterSound, which John R pointed out.

it's called something with a 'P', i think. prestige, paramount, pinnacle???

st. joe of course wanted to buy it so watersound south would be one giant piece w/out a divot in the middle, and offered what the owner thought was a ridiculously low priceand told them to stuff it. the next time they went back, it was too late/too expensive to buy. st joe has some pretty good arial(sp) photos of it(since it's smack dab in the middle of their land) at the watersound sales center.


jr

We're talking about a different piece of land. The land in question in just west of Alys Beach on the north side of 30A. It is between Alys Beach and Watersound Parkway. Prominence is, as you said, in the middle of Watersound on the south side of 30A about 2 miles west of the property we're talking about.

The owner of record is listed as ZOHOURI DEVELOPMENTS SOUTH WALTON LLC, and Fred Zohouri from Atlanta is the Managing Mbr of the LLC. It consist of about 26 acres and sold for $61M in Sept '05, according to property records. From $24.5 M to $61M is a great flip, esp if it was an assignment and the original buyer had only an EMD holding the property. :shock:

Quick math = $2,350,000 per acre. If zoned 8 units per acre (and I have not looked to see), the raw land cost is only $293K per unit. With infrastructure costs, you can look at probably $400k per unit cost to developer. That price is not too bad all considered.

I Googled Zohouri's name and although he has been involved with some big condo developments in Miami/S. Florida.

Quick math = $2,350,000 per acre. If zoned 8 units per acre (and I have not looked to see), the raw land cost is only $293K per unit. With infrastructure costs, you can look at probably $400k per unit cost to developer. That price is not too bad all considered.

You're probably right considering how much Alys Beach is getting for their lots. At one time there was a lot in Alys south of 30A that was listed for 2.5 mil.

This property doesn't have beach access though. I guess they're planning to go through Alys Beach? I know that when it was on the market, the owners were trying to secure an easement through Sand Cliffs subdivision, but it didn't work out.

We're talking about a different piece of land. The land in question in just west of Alys Beach on the north side of 30A. It is between Alys Beach and Watersound Parkway. Prominence is, as you said, in the middle of Watersound on the south side of 30A about 2 miles west of the property we're talking about.

got it. next time i'm down that way, i'll look for this piece.


jr

This is Prominence. Apparently, in order to be prominent, you have to remain any trace of vegetation. And then you fill in any gentle roll to your property so that it is completely flat. I will keep everyone updated as to what comes next in the pursuit of Prominence.

You're probably right considering how much Alys Beach is getting for their lots. At one time there was a lot in Alys south of 30A that was listed for 2.5 mil.

This property doesn't have beach access though. I guess they're planning to go through Alys Beach? I know that when it was on the market, the owners were trying to secure an easement through Sand Cliffs subdivision, but it didn't work out.

Maybe they will use the same beach access that Prominence owners will be using at Deer Lake State Park. :funn:

Maybe they will use the same beach access that Prominence owners will be using at Deer Lake State Park. :funn:

And they can drive their scooters and golf carts of the bike trail to get there.

And they can drive their scooters and golf carts of the bike trail to get there.

Because that's where they'll take their dogs to do their business because they don't want to have to deal with it back by their cottage. (I've seen that happen multiple times with Destiny owners thinking Crab Trap park is their dog's personal doo space)

Quick math = $2,350,000 per acre. If zoned 8 units per acre (and I have not looked to see), the raw land cost is only $293K per unit. With infrastructure costs, you can look at probably $400k per unit cost to developer. That price is not too bad all considered.

Whe you say infrastructure costs of $400k/unit, are you including the construction cost of the actual home (total development cost=land+building) or just true infrastructure (site development costs= clearing, utilities, paving, etc...)?

Hotelier and local at loggerheads over lighting issue

BY ANTHONY CORMIER FLORIDA FREEDOM NEWS

PANAMA CITY BEACH ? A professor calls it the ?height of arrogance,? the embodiment of development?s continuing clash with nature. But will his students draw a line in the sand?
Nick Macahan, a sociology professor at Ivy Tech Community College, is urging students to boycott three beachfront properties during Spring Break in response to a long-running battle between a hotel magnate and conservationists over lights, laws and baby sea turtles.
The great turtle debate has been simmering since November, when Bay County officials hedged against a new light ordinance. The issue reignited, at least in some part, with the announcement this week of a campaign to keep spring breakers out of hotels owned by one of the Panhandle?s most powerful men.
Charlie Hilton has long argued against a countywide ordinance to slash ?light pollution,? or the nonnatural light that lures disoriented turtles away from the gulf, and has repeatedly asked officials to relocate nests rather than force hoteliers to turn off beachside lights.
?That, to me, is just the height of arrogance,? Macahan said in a phone interview on Tuesday. ?I find it appalling that this particular hotel owner cannot adjust his lighting. When I first heard about it, I absolutely could not believe it.?
Hilton?s three beachfront hotels ? a Holiday Inn SunSpree, Day?s Inn and Ramada Inn ? are not in the area currently regulated by a pilot project launched in May 2003 that restricts light for five miles of unincorporated beach between Panama City Beach?s western border and the Walton County line.
However, as a businessman and multimillionaire who looms large over local politics, Hilton has worn a target labeling him antienvironment and anti-turtle, two tags he bristles against. Hilton said Tuesday the boycott is less about the environment and more about ?shutting us down.?
?That?s what they want to do,? Hilton said. ?They have always said that the turtles have a right to exist, but what they don?t consider is man?s right to exist. ? They can do what they want, they can boycott us, but what they don?t realize is that we are trying to do everything we can to make the situation right.?
The issue might be raised again in mid-2006, when a light survey is due back to the Bay County Tourist Development Council. The study is expected to tally light pollution and ?urban glow? effects across the county and could play a vital role in a reconfigured ordinance.
The survey, undertaken to meet permitting requirements for a beach renourishment project, must be done by May 15. County commissioners likely will take another look at the lighting ordinance once the study is in hand.
The pilot program has been lauded by conservationists, who point to a steady decline in disorientation among the loggerheads that nest along Panhandle shores between May and October. In fact, proponents say the program has been so successful that it should be expanded across the county.
Currently, only Mexico Beach and the west-end beaches have restrictions on specific light. But according to Kennard Watson, director of Turtle Watch, disorientation has dropped 24 percent in the past three years.
Bay County code enforcement officials estimate that 90 percent of homeowners and hoteliers in the pilot program?s zone have complied with the lighting regulations.
Turtle Watch, a St. Andrew Bay group under contract with Bay County to monitor nesting and female turtle tracks, found that three of 21 nests saw successful births last year - 170 turtles in all. The nests were largely overwhelmed by hurricanes, a natural phenomenon that ?turtles have been dealing with for millennia,? Watson said.
While a relatively small number emerges from the Panhandle every year, scientists say these turtles are distinct genetically in comparison to the larger South Florida populations. For Kennard, an expansion to the light ordinance should be based on disorientation - perhaps the most significant long-term threat the species faces.
?I think there is a very vocal minority of people who have held up the expansion of the ordinance,? Watson said Tuesday. ?The majority of people have been supportive. I think this small pilot program has proven to skeptics that implementing lighting laws protects sea turtles.?
Lorna Patrick, a Panama City-based biologist with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, said the lighting issue is directly tied to tourist and guest safety at beachfront hotels. Hoteliers, she acknowledged, are stuck between a rock and a hard place: How do they keep the lights on for guests, while turning them down for turtles?
?What does a property owner do when they?re stuck in the middle of conflicting laws about turtles and people?? asked Julie Hilton, Charlie?s daughter and vice president of Paradise Found Resorts & Hotels. ?There are some conflicting laws for guest safety. People have only begun to realize this. We?ve always been more than willing to work with (conservationists), but it?s very, very frustrating to deal with these conflicting laws.?
Patrick, and others, seek a solution. It starts with a broader ordinance, and cooperation between business and nature.
Said Patrick: ?It can work in Panama City Beach, and it?s our intent for (the ordinance) to cover all of Panama City Beach.?

I believe it is "Prominence". Go to www.prominencefl.com to get info.

Prominence looks a little farther west than the parcel that I saw being cleared. This parcel is west of Alys Beach and east of the Camp Creek golf course. Prominence looks like it will be an upscale development, though (I hope).

John

His house looks like it's wearing a beret.

It is the ugliest piece of scrap metal and concrete to appear in SOWAL, since the debris from Opal in 1995--in fact it looks like he is using any debris from recent storms to construct that hunk of contempo junk. That is just awful about the sea turtles. What a MFing idiot.

I think if he would just go ahead and finish the daggum thing instead of it just sitting there, it would be an improvement. Or sell it to someone who cares. His attitude doesn't belong among such beauty. I keep thinking of that movie "Ben" and see the turtles going after Mr. H!!!!

My family has visited PCB several times yearly for 50 years. We still go now and really enjoy the off season. Spring Break is not a good time to visit almost any beach by our experiences. We got interested in 30-A about 20 years ago. All the areas are beautiful and the Seacrest Beach area and Blue Mountain Beach areas are among my favorites. Don't know if anyone is familiar with Peachtree City, GA but it is a planned community with many covenents. Developed in the 1960s. If I remember right, the developer of Seaside also worked on the Peachtree City project.
When we visit with other couples, we stay in PCB as we have a tradition of celebrating 3 wedding anniversaries (all over 30 years) within a 5 week time span.

Hey John R, Just curious as to the significance of the bollard in your sig. Thanks in advance.

I believe it is "Prominence". Go to www.prominencefl.com to get info.

Prominence looks interesting. I like the "proposed waterfront".

Hey John R, Just curious as to the significance of the bollard in your sig. Thanks in advance.

It is a mini microphone -- a far cry from a bollard, even as similar it appears.

Prominence looks interesting. I like the "proposed waterfront".

AKA "retention pond". No seriously - it IS a retention pond.

AKA "retention pond". No seriously - it IS a retention pond.

I have thought about this rentention pond aka "harbour" for a while. I am a far cry from liking Prominence. That said, my latest thought on the "harbour" is that I like the creative use of installing a retention area that helps filter out the run-off and making it a feature of the project.

Sure wish they had RETAINED some of the vegetation though.