St Joe's new development

I hear they have gotten a lot of flak from the USAF.

According to the Tv news this morning, Tyndall is worried that people will complain about the noise of the jets as this parcel is under the approach to the base.

Also, they reported that over the years, some of their unmanned drone planes had crashed on this land.

Perhaps they can name this community "WaterFalls" and then the thunder of the jet engines can help create that 'sense of place'.

According to the Tv news this morning, Tyndall is worried that people will complain about the noise of the jets as this parcel is under the approach to the base.

Also, they reported that over the years, some of their unmanned drone planes had crashed on this land.

Perhaps they can name this community "WaterFalls" and then the thunder of the jet engines can help create that 'sense of place'.

Or maybe..."De Plains"

That's REALLY funny Seashore :clap_1: I have to get back to work... but that made my day.

According to the Tv news this morning, Tyndall is worried that people will complain about the noise of the jets as this parcel is under the approach to the base.

Also, they reported that over the years, some of their unmanned drone planes had crashed on this land.

Perhaps they can name this community "WaterFalls" and then the thunder of the jet engines can help create that 'sense of place'.

Sounds like the more appropriate name would be DroneFalls.

I remember venturing down to Mexico beach just prior to July 4, the year following 9-11, and the jets were zooming around so much that we packed up and left after being there for only 30 minutes max. Those landing jets reminded me of yellow jackets approaching the landing in their hive. I don't think that the end users will appreciate the extremely loud military aircraft invading their otherwise peaceful and quiet day at the beach.

I think a similar situation is in store for JOE's project RiverCamps which will soon be located just south of Bay County's new International Airport.

I think the actual name tossed around is Bonfire Beach, which I think is quite pleasing to the ear.

A nice JOE development could really change the face of Mexico Beach. Good for the tax base and property values. Bad for those who want an affodable family vacation destination. Time will tell.

I think the actual name tossed around is Bonfire Beach, which I think is quite pleasing to the ear.

A nice JOE development could really change the face of Mexico Beach. Good for the tax base and property values. Bad for those who want an affodable family vacation destination. Time will tell.

I don't know if you have visited lately, but Mexico Beach is not the same place it was three short years ago.

My grandfather and extended family live in Port St. Joe Beach - a few blocks off of Hwy 98. I concur that Mexico Beach and much of the area have undergone tremendous development in the last few years. I recall condo construction on the west end of Mexico Beach when I visited last April. I'm planning a long weekend in March and eager to see what's new.

Does anyone know the timing for moving 98 in the Windmark area?

I think the actual name tossed around is Bonfire Beach

Yikes! See previous comment regarding crashing drones!

My grandfather and extended family live in Port St. Joe Beach - a few blocks off of Hwy 98. I concur that Mexico Beach and much of the area have undergone tremendous development in the last few years. I recall condo construction on the west end of Mexico Beach when I visited last April. I'm planning a long weekend in March and eager to see what's new.

Does anyone know the timing for moving 98 in the Windmark area?

What I have heard is that it should be moved by mid-July. They seem to be working pretty hard at it.
The jets around here don't bother me at all, but then Top Gun is one of my favorite movies, and I have a kid who wants to be a pilot.

Hi Cil,

I am curious to know what the locals in Port St. Joe are saying about all the recent development plans for your area.

actually I think it's a smart move on St. Joe's part, the way BRAC closures are coming on non-essential bases, that would put them right next to a perfect place to start a new industrial area or clean it up in some future time and put in all the homes you could think of and Tyndall is a very well located base. Just think of it not being milatary?? the only reason they kept it open last time around was for the f22 raptors to train there! even those will become obselete in the near future.

Hi Cil,

I am curious to know what the locals in Port St. Joe are saying about all the recent development plans for your area.

Hi twt512
I've been here about 3 months, so am no expert.
Opinions vary.
Some of the "old school" type folks are still bitter about the paper mill closing.
OTOH, some locals made a lot of money with the higher property values.
People seem excited (in a good way) about the new marina plans.
I think everyone will be a lot happier when there is more infrastructure to go with the fancy properties and fancy prices. It's coming.

From the WMBB site on Feb 10th....

PANAMA CITY - Last Tuesday night, the St. Joe Company made their presentation to the Mexico Beach Planning & Zoning Board to request the re-zoning of 550 acres they currently own between Mexico Beach and Tyndall Air Force Base.

The property is zoned "Timber & Agricultural Use" and St. Joe Company is lobbying for "Tourist Mixed Use." The zoning change would allow the St. Joe Company to pursue their longterm goal of creating an upscale residential and commercial community similar to South Walton County's Watercolor community.

The proximity of this land to Tyndall Air Force Base has prompted some citizens to express their concern. However, Tyndall AFB says it is too early in the process for them to become involved. They issued this statement to News13 on Friday:

"Tyndall leadership is committed to being a good neighbor and strengthening the relationship with local communities and governments while working together to form responsible land uses. We do not engage in local decision-making, but identify issues with development proposals that may be incompatible with military training operations. There is an established process in place and once we are asked to submit our evaluation of any proposals to the state, we will do so at that time, currently it is too early in the process. We will continue to work closely with county and community planners, government leaders, developers and concerned citizens so they are well versed about our operations and can make informed decisions concerning development."

The Mexico Beach Planning and Zoning Board will make their recommendations to the Mexico Beach City Council next Tuesday. If this moves forward, a proposal will the be drafted for the state and it will be the state that then asks Tyndall Air Force Base for their evaluations.

A couple of years ago I made the mistake of purchasing a lot in the prestigious Watersound St. Joe development here in South Walton County. After years of trying to get plans approved by their design and review process, tons of headaches, threats of $2500.00 per month fines for not stating a project on time, a total disrespect of owners, I could never recommended anyone to purchase a lot in a St. Joe development! Even though you are forced to select an approved Watersound architect, the Watersound DRB committee jerks every lot owner around for months at a time. There is an official pattern book, but this committee only uses it for reference, so owners and architects are left with becoming mind readers! There is no parity or equitable toward their reviews, and you can expect your plans to have to be redrawn at least a half dozen times. Guess its job security of the architects (and the DRB board members) who on average charge 10% of total build out costs. No one in the sales office will tell you that there is over 80 lots for resale, nor do they mention to potential buyers to expect several years of headaches in the DRB process before you can expect approval to build! No wonder there are over 80 lots of sale in the Watersound development! They sell you a lot and then do everything they can to make sure you never start your home just so they can collect $2500.00/month when you pass their deadline! I have even heard of lot owners whom are giving away lots to charity just to avoid stiff penalties. The state of Florida needs to be investigating this specific St. Joe development because you would think its either a borderline scam or fraud with respect of how they are treating lot owners! Personally, I recommend anyone to think twice before every purchasing a lot in any St. Joe development!

Fishforfun

Yikes. Does anyone have any other experiences with St. Joe developments, especially Watersound? Any good experiences? Thanks.

We're building on our lot in Watersound now. I must say we had no problems at all. Our initial plan had to be revised, but we knew it might be because we were pushing the allowable sq. ft. limits on our lot, and they accepted the first revision no problem. I'm sorry you had such problems. I must say, I'm a little puzzled by the way Watersound has played out. We bought the lot for a second home, which I would have assumed is why the majority of people bought there, it's a beautiful setting. The only reason we didn't build sooner (we've been approved for over a year) is that no one else seems to be building and we didn't want to be surrounded by construction any longer than necessary. I understand some investors are buying those lots and waiting to build, but I don't understand why only a very small proportion of lots are starting construction after more than 4 years. My 2 cents.

Fishforfun

Sounds gruesome!

You state: "They sell you a lot and then do everything they can to make sure you never start your home just so they can collect $2500.00/month when you pass their deadline!" .

I know very little about Watersound, but this doesn't sound logical .... are you sure this is not exaggeration? I really can't imagine this being done .... How would they stay in business? Surely someone else knows if this is factual.

FFF - I call BS. Not every owner has problems. Sounds like you and your architect couldn't follow directions, and that you have a giant axe to grind. Do it somewhere else because I'm not buying.

A couple of years ago I made the mistake of purchasing a lot in the prestigious Watersound St. Joe development here in South Walton County. After years of trying to get plans approved by their design and review process, tons of headaches, threats of $2500.00 per month fines for not stating a project on time, a total disrespect of owners, I could never recommended anyone to purchase a lot in a St. Joe development! Even though you are forced to select an approved Watersound architect, the Watersound DRB committee jerks every lot owner around for months at a time. There is an official pattern book, but this committee only uses it for reference, so owners and architects are left with becoming mind readers! There is no parity or equitable toward their reviews, and you can expect your plans to have to be redrawn at least a half dozen times. Guess its job security of the architects (and the DRB board members) who on average charge 10% of total build out costs. Personally, I recommend anyone to think twice before every purchasing a lot in any St. Joe development!

I'm reluctant to get in the middle of this but.....

as I deal with the Watercolor/St. Joe review boards and their approval process frequently maybe I can shed a little light on this subject.

First, Watercolor is by far the most difficult community to get your house plans approved in our area.

But, most homeowners, working with experienced architects who have worked with the St. Joe review board before will get their plans through the review process in about 3-4 months.

Of the projects I have been involved with in Watercolor:

60% went smoothly
30% involved several revisions and re-submittals
10% were nightmares!

I don't doubt FFF's experiences, and I can relate to it; but I can say it is not typical of the average review process.

When dealing with a St. Joe development, keep the following in mind:

1) Give yourself a realistic timeframe for completing the review process. Many homeowners wait until their build-out date is looming and try a last minute sprint to get their house underway.

2) Accept the fact that it is a heavily regulated community, and when the review board DEMANDS that you follow certain guidelines, they are not picking on you personally.

3) Either work with an architect who is experienced with the St. Joe review process, or accept that it will take longer to get your plans approved. There are many quirks about working with their ARB that are not in the rulebook (as FFF mentioned) so it helps to have done it before.

Rita and AMP22, I have no ax to grind, just trying to help other prevent making the same mistake of ever purchasing in a St. Joe development without informed knowledge of what to expect. I have been also told the DRB process is much easier to pass in Watercolor than Watersound. I assure you my architect has been drawing plans for Watersound and Watercolor since both developments were started. Found out today that the Watersound sales staff is finally being honest with informing potential buyers to expect ONE YEAR minimum in the DRB! If you don't believe me, stop by the WS sales office. The original sales staff are no longer working there, but the new folks appear to telling potential buyers everything, except that there are over 80 lots for resale. Every owners meeting Watersound has had over the past two years there have been angry owners upset about the lengthy DRB process. I don't anticipate any changes or improvements occurring in this development until St. Joe has to deal with litigation from numerous property owners over the unequitable DRB process or the State of Florida. In fact, I have been informed that the state will be putting the magnifying glass to this development very soon. I am glad to hear others have been more fortunate, consider yourself lucky. I personally think St. Joe should have stuck with the lumbar and stayed out of development business.

fisshforfun - thanks for clarifying and giving more details.

Why would the sales staff not tell people how many lots are for sale and what difference does it make? I'm not sure what the problem is. Can you clarify?

You have an extra S. Do you want me to remove one?

... The original sales staff are no longer working there, but the new folks appear to telling potential buyers everything, except that there are over 80 lots for resale. ...

FYI - The information that can legally be given to a customer by a sales associtate is controlled and limited, depending on the type of Broker Relationship you have with the Broker. For example, acting as a Transaction Broker, it is unlawful to run comps for a customer without the customer asking for the comps. Once they ask, the Sales Associate can run the comps. No ask, no get, unless your agent is acting as a Single Agent, which limits the properties he or she can show you. The whole Agency Type process is somewhat confusing to most people, including many Realtors. Most agents around here act as a Transaction Broker, at least until the laws change again in 2008, hopefully making it all much easier to understand.

SJ, In your experience, do most Realtors become transaction brokers for the good of their client, or their own good[to avoid litigation]?

SJ, In your experience, do most Realtors become transaction brokers for the good of their client, or their own good[to avoid litigation]?

Typically, the Broker establishes as a rule, the type of brokerage relationship with which they want to do business. In FL, it is assumed that the relationship is a Transaction Broker, unless otherwise noted.

The transaction brokerage allows an agent to show the listings held by their brokerage in addition to other broker's listings.

As a Single Agency, an agent cannot show their in house listings, without first, having the client sign the Transition to Transaction Broker Notice, thereby making the Brokerage relationship a Transaction Broker.

The big difference in duties between the two is a Single Agency has the duty of loyalty to the client, while a Transaction cannot favor one side of a transaction (ie-buyer or seller) over the other.

A third type of brokerage relationship is a "no-representation," in which the duties of the agent to the customer are very limited. Some discount brokerages are using this as they take listing which they do nothing more with than entering the listing in the MLS. Many Developers are also using this for their in-house sales. Liability on the agent/broker's behalf is extremely limited. (note: developers often use it because technically, there is some loyalty to one side -- the developer, and if loyalty is present on one side of the deal, it has to be non-existant on the other.

In 2008, expect all broker relationships to be Transaction Brokers, without the need to disclose to a customer.

All of these disclosures were created to try and protect the customers and clients from the Agents, but they really caused way too much confusion in the process and there are several inconsitancies in the whole thing which do not make logical sense.

Going back to my previous post, if an agent working under the Transaction Broker, provides certain information without being asked by the customer, it could be more easily believed by the customer that the agent was representing the customer as a Single Agency, giving advice to the "client." As a Transaction Broker, an agent is not allowed to give advice, but many agents are so confused by all of this stuff, that they fail to get it correct, and are more likely to have more liabilty in certain circumstances. If you really want to test your agent and get a laugh, ask them to tell you the difference between the three Brokerage Relationships. Even some of the long time pros will stumble, showing you the confusion of the subject. Rarely, will you get the same answer twice, even when asking the same agent.