Beach Erosion--Can it be fixed?

The sad fact is that hurricanes always eat beachfront homes. It will happen sooner or it will happen later, but it will eventually happen.

People and businesses need to be encouraged not to build on top of the dunes so close to the water. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but it should not be the responsibility of the taxpayer to shore up private homes when history shows that it isn't a good idea to build on top of the dunes.

Just my 2 cents.

If people are allowed to exercise their rights and build, they will build, come hell or high water.

I wonder if he has ever been to a beach? Isn't Duke a good 3-4 hours from the Beach? I wonder what his field of expertise is? Is the AJC just looking to raise a brow? Maybe interviewing him is like Jay Leno asking basic Current Events questions to the public so that we can get a kick out of listening to the answers. That is why I don't read the AJC, and never will. Give me the days when the Walton Sun had only local stuff. I hate reading into a story, then look to see that it is about Chicago or somewhere. The Walton Sun is still better than the other mind controlling garbage like the AJC.

Dr. Pilkey is a well-respected expert on shoreline management.

http://www.beachbrowser.com/Archives/Environment/August-99/ORRIN-H-PILKEY.htm

Orrin Pilkey is a James B. Duke Professor of Geology and Director of the Program for the Study of Developed Shorelines (PSDS) within the Division of Earth and Ocean Science at Duke University.

Pilkey received his B.S. degree in Geology at Washington State College, his M.S. degree in Geology at the University of Montana and his Ph.D. degree in Geology at Florida State University. His research career started with the study of shoreline/ continental shelf sedimentation, progressing to the deep sea with empahasis on abyssal plain sediments and back to nearshore with emphasis on coastal management. He has published more than 150 technical publications.

Currently PSDS research focuses on beach replenishment and other forms of shoreline stabilization, evaluation of the validity of mathematical models of beach behavior, hazard risk mapping on barrier islands, sedimentary processes on shorefaces, mitigation of hurricane property damage on barriers, and principles of barrier island evolution in Colombia, South America.

If people are allowed to exercise their rights and build, they will build, come hell or high water.

By "encouraged," I actually mean by law, not the goodness of their hearts.

The sad fact is that hurricanes always eat beachfront homes. It will happen sooner or it will happen later, but it will eventually happen.

People and businesses need to be encouraged not to build on top of the dunes so close to the water. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but it should not be the responsibility of the taxpayer to shore up private homes when history shows that it isn't a good idea to build on top of the dunes.

Just my 2 cents.

A couple things: First, existing homes can't be moved.

Secondly, people who build on vacant lots (of which there are scarcely few left) don't want to be set back from existing homes on either side. It obstructs their view. And I can understand it. I would not want to sit on the deck of my new $4 million gulf front home and be able to see only a sliver of the gulf, only to turn slightly sideways and be looking at the side of someone else's home.

Someone above mentioned installing rip rap against the existing cliffs, then covering with sand. Of course, that may be more expensive, and more labor-intensive than simply replacing the sand. I do think it is a good idea, but can you imagine the amount of rocks that would have to be trucked in? Boggles the mind.

A couple things: First, existing homes can't be moved.

Secondly, people who build on vacant lots (of which there are scarcely few left) don't want to be set back from existing homes on either side. It obstructs their view. And I can understand it. I would not want to sit on the deck of my new $4 million gulf front home and be able to see only a sliver of the gulf, only to turn slightly sideways and be looking at the side of someone else's home.

Someone above mentioned installing rip rap against the existing cliffs, then covering with sand. Of course, that may be more expensive, and more labor-intensive than simply replacing the sand.

I guess you get a choice: a view and having the house eventually wash away, or no view and keeping the house. I chose the latter.

I realize existing homes can't be moved But, it makes sense not to replace them once they are gone.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Only speaking to people's mindset when they build. Thing is, the newer developments (like the Retreat) had an opportunity to build all the homes a bit further back and chose not to do so.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Only speaking to people's mindset when they build. Thing is, the newer developments (like the Retreat) had an opportunity to build all the homes a bit further back and chose not to do so.

And that's because people insist on a view and the developers make more money by putting them closer to the water.

I have found this site real good in explaining the issues and mechanics:

http://www3.csc.noaa.gov/beachnourishment/

In the "Human Dimensions" side there is a debate b/w Pikey & the opposing side.

From what I saw on the beach yesterday, without anything quick if we get another hurricane there could be a catastrophe of major proportions in the works. Lots of variables in that and I am always a worrier.

From what I saw on the beach yesterday, without anything quick if we get another hurricane there could be a catastrophe of major proportions in the works. Lots of variables in that and I am always a worrier.

And that is why something will be done, even if we're not sure it's the right thing to do.

And that is why something will be done, even if we're not sure it's the right thing to do.

The interesting thing politically is the play between short term and long term interests. Choosing a strategy to handle the problem of getting through the wretched hurricane season without compromising the long term health of the beach and community. In my experience situations like this always really suck, because people seize on the immediate crisis to obtain things that really in the long term scheme of things were bad, and the pressures of the immediate crisis cause people to throw the big picture out and cave in.
And yet if you think only long term you don't see immediate problem.

I wish it were October.

I hope that a long term view is taken to the restoration but the reality seems to be that SoWal needs the tourism $$s and some or all of us owner's/rentees do as well and a large % of the people that come down to this area want gulf front or at least a view, a pool, and easy access to the beach....it is expected and they do not want to be inconvenienced or work too hard....this is not meant to offend any renters or anyone at all it is just a fact....I am partially guilty of thinking this way too...so some short term measures are going to be taken to get thru this Summer season. I just hope as many on this forum do that SoWal and the powers that be that make decisions on the restoration will not do the short term "quick" fix for this season to make it more convenient and safe to enjoy and then forget about the longer term fix. It is human nature for some people to push the limits of what is allowable and developers, builders, buyers, and sellers will continue to push for close frontage and that is a fact that will remain...if the powers that be (county, government etc) will allow them to built it close(r) and they do it then people will want it and pay more for it. Fact. Unfortunately, $$ is king and dictates alot of this and other aspects of our lives.

I just hope they can find a delicate balance between short term repair for the immediate season AND do the right ting long term.

Also, the Duke prof if you read it closely makes a sweeping generalization that some of us are ignorant, in denial, crazy/mad, and arrogant. I suspect that he is too based on re-reading this article....just my thoughts on this.

...Also, the Duke prof if you read it closely makes a sweeping generalization that some of us are ignorant, in denial, crazy/mad, and arrogant. I suspect that he is too based on re-reading this article....just my thoughts on this.

I know a couple of academics and generally they are quite dogmatic and intractable folk, and positions like that are what gets you quoted.

BUT, one thing he says in his paper at the noaa site is that renourished beaches are significantly less resistant to storms and erode quicker. Having watched Arlene (a dumb little tropical storm) wash a significant part of months of work out to sea in an afternoon, I think he has a point.

Absolutely he has some very good points. But they are somewhat potentially missed due to his approach and his attempt to grab headlines. I don't know about you or anyone else out there but when people make sweeping statements and generalizations I tend not to really read the content, give them the credit they should get, or give it much thought. Also, I (and others) tend to shut down and tune out when someone intimates that I am in denial, mad, or "not very smart". When I approach topics like he has (and I can get that way), I am not suprised when people shut down and don't listen to me or care about my point.

I think we all know that building or treading too close to nature is a blessing but not without possible peril or consequence. So, some do it and hope for the best, some do it and are in denial or don't think rationally about what "could" happen, and others just do it or enjoy it while we can and try not to scar it or ruin it for others. Not trying to get too deep her but realistic.

If it's like everything else in life, some compromise between the dogmatic, long-term and immediate-gratification, short-term approaches is probably appropriate.

I think there will have to be some immediate work done to get the beaches usable and to salvage what can be salvaged of the severely damaged properties. Some of this work will not be ideal and would not be my preference under normal conditions. Once we've 'stopped the bleeding', though, I think we can go back to a more long-term philosophy.

The interesting thing politically is the play between short term and long term interests. Choosing a strategy to handle the problem of getting through the wretched hurricane season without compromising the long term health of the beach and community. In my experience situations like this always really suck, because people seize on the immediate crisis to obtain things that really in the long term scheme of things were bad, and the pressures of the immediate crisis cause people to throw the big picture out and cave in.
And yet if you think only long term you don't see immediate problem.

I wish it were October.

Wise you are.

Well, sifting through all of the material on this board does give a non-resident a much better perspective. I used to look forward to when I might be able to afford the $$ to stay in one of those beach-side houses (after kid's college drain is gone <grin>) but doing so would seem to make me a problem contributor - wife says I'm still a boy scout (she's probably right, leave the camp site in better shape when you leave and all that).

Maybe a bright spot to Dennis (and this forum) is an incremental enlightenment of folks like me.

Kurt & Joe, if I do make it down there week of 07/24 (jury's still out til I hear from rental folks - maybe tomorrow), you're both welcome to my cold ones. Look for a brought-my-own umbrella with an OhioBeachBum sign on it (and relatively bright Ohio skin) near GWE if you find yourselves in that neighborhood.

Travel2Much posted a great link for education on beach renourishment just above. Here's another with photos before and after.
http://www.shinermoseley.com/?event=coastal

And that is why something will be done, even if we're not sure it's the right thing to do.

Whatever is done will not stop nature. For a lesson in the power of nature, take a look at New Smyrna Beach today. Not long ago, New smyrna Beach was as wide as a football field during low tide. At the south end of the beach, near Canaveral National Seashore, Bethune Beach looked like many areas in Walton County look now. Homeowners tried everything,huge coquina bolders, gigantic chunks o' concrete, seawalls etc. to no avail. The homes and walkovers were subject to the fury of the next Atlantic Storm. Then along came Hurricanes Charley, Frances and Jeanne. In six short weeks the situation was reversed completely. The north end of the beach, where driving was allowed w/ 50-100 yard width of hardpacked sand was essentially gone. Today, on the north end, people are up against the seawalls and on-ramps at high tide. The south end of the beach, where people derided the owners for building so close to the beach, is much wider. Dredge, pump, infill, wall, reinforce as well as you can, in the end it will not matter. Walton County's issues are worsened by the fact that where the homes sit, there is no gradient anymore.

Whatever is done will not stop nature. For a lesson in the power of nature, take a look at New Smyrna Beach today. Not long ago, New smyrna Beach was as wide as a football field during low tide. At the south end of the beach, near Canaveral National Seashore, Bethune Beach looked like many areas in Walton County look now. Homeowners tried everything,huge coquina bolders, gigantic chunks o' concrete, seawalls etc. to no avail. The homes and walkovers were subject to the fury of the next Atlantic Storm. Then along came Hurricanes Charley, Frances and Jeanne. In six short weeks the situation was reversed completely. The north end of the beach, where driving was allowed w/ 50-100 yard width of hardpacked sand was essentially gone. Today, on the north end, people are up against the seawalls and on-ramps at high tide. The south end of the beach, where people derided the owners for building so close to the beach, is much wider. Dredge, pump, infill, wall, reinforce as well as you can, in the end it will not matter. Walton County's issues are worsened by the fact that where the homes sit, there is no gradient anymore.

That's encouraging Bob You are absolutely right that if Mother nature wants it, she gets it. Our hope is to delay it until she'll get off this rampage that she's on for the last 10 months. I'm not an expert but I think it's USUALLY worse on the Atlantic than it is on the Gulf.

If memory serves me correctly (that's a BIG if) when erosion took place in Galveston, people were not allowed to rebuild on gulf front property. Are there laws concerning this? I'm so sorry for those who are dealing with this situation. We always wish we had gulf front until this happens. I hope there will be a good solution concerning shoring up the damaged homes and dunes.

To those "returning" sand to the beaches...you rock! Years ago, I though it would be a great idea to collect a sample of sand from every beach we visited. Then I thought of that saying..."What if everyone had the same idea!". I'm sure you catch my drift. I bet it will be a spiritual moment for you to bring back the sand. You could even post pics!

Galveston did not allow rebuilding for 6 months to give the beach time to restore and renourish. Houses that were past the vegetation line, which separates public from private land were not allowed to rebuild. Many of these house were heavily damaged or septic systems comprimised. Houses that were at least 10% landward of the vegatation line were permitted to rebuild.

More on Galveston, homeowners who were partially over vegatation line due to Hurricane Frances were allowed to rebuild. Only homes over vegatation were not allowed to rebuild.

That's encouraging Bob You are absolutely right that if Mother nature wants it, she gets it. Our hope is to delay it until she'll get off this rampage that she's on for the last 10 months. I'm not an expert but I think it's USUALLY worse on the Atlantic than it is on the Gulf.

I think some tough decisions are going to be made for Walton County. I hope the decisions are conservative, because the next storm will just rearrange whatever is done.

I think some tough decisions are going to be made for Walton County. I hope the decisions are conservative, because the next storm will just rearrange whatever is done.

I just read today's Walton Sun and "conservative" doesn't seem to be the current route. Lots of talk about large scale projects and this and that. "Rash" and "panicky" might describe it. I don't agree with that approach, at least tentatively. They seem to think that somehow there is some magic solution to getting the beaches looking perfect for everyone a couple days after a category three hurricane.

I have been riding around and think the beach looks great, but I always think the beach looks great. Sand is gradually coming back. Nature is definitely recarving the duneline in the east, that's for sure. I find it fascinating. My attitude right now is to leave it to nature. Any solutions will simply be a waste of money.