I heard today there were a few more drownings in Panama City Beach by rip tides recently. I don't know if the drownings were during days when a red flag was flying (in which people case should not have gone into the water because of the high hazard). Those of us who rent need to be sure to post the flag system in a prominent place in our rentals and remind people that they indeed need to follow the flag system for their safety and the safety of their children. Some visitors may not understand the flag system or understand the risk they are really taking when they don't pay attention to the flags. As posted on another thread, here's a thread to the flag system that you could download and post:
http://www.seemoresafetycrab.com/
Replies
72
Admin
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I heard 3 drowned, and many others were rescued in PCB in the last week from rip currents. I assume it was when the water was rough, which has calmed some recently.
A lot of our flagpoles are down.
I heard 3 drowned, and many others were rescued in PCB in the last week from rip currents. I assume it was when the water was rough, which has calmed some recently.
A lot of our flagpoles are down.
Beach Comber
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
On the ABC news tonight there was a story about Walton County, "Black Sunday" , and rip tides. Tonight's 20/20 will have a story on what to do if you get caught in a rip tide.
On the ABC news tonight there was a story about Walton County, "Black Sunday" , and rip tides. Tonight's 20/20 will have a story on what to do if you get caught in a rip tide.
Admin
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
Local officials are warning swimmers of strong rip currents in the Gulf of Mexico due to recent storms.
?[The rip current] has changed since pre-Ivan,? Shift District Chief Mark Anderson, South Walton Fire Department, said.
The South Walton Fire Department responded to a call Wednesday at Topsail Hill Preserve State Park. An unidentified man caught in the rip current was able to swim to shore on his own, but needed additional treatment due to over exertion. It was the fifth near drowning in South Walton County in two days.
The fire department had responded to four calls at Ed Walline Park the day before.
Learn about rip currents
Local officials are warning swimmers of strong rip currents in the Gulf of Mexico due to recent storms.
?[The rip current] has changed since pre-Ivan,? Shift District Chief Mark Anderson, South Walton Fire Department, said.
The South Walton Fire Department responded to a call Wednesday at Topsail Hill Preserve State Park. An unidentified man caught in the rip current was able to swim to shore on his own, but needed additional treatment due to over exertion. It was the fifth near drowning in South Walton County in two days.
The fire department had responded to four calls at Ed Walline Park the day before.
Learn about rip currents
Beach Lover
ABC 20/20 story on Walton County and tourist safety
See this 20/20 story that was on tonight about Walton County not reponding to the need for lifeguards on the beaches:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=965757&page=1
See this 20/20 story that was on tonight about Walton County not reponding to the need for lifeguards on the beaches:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=965757&page=1
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
ABC's 20/20 feature on rip currents was informative. The chairman of the Walton County Commission couldn't have done a worse job in the interview with correspondent Brian Ross, who hammered him over the lack of lifeguards. There are good arguments on both sides of the life guards or no life guards issue...none of which were articulated by the chariman. Thoroughly unprepared for prime time.
ABC's 20/20 feature on rip currents was informative. The chairman of the Walton County Commission couldn't have done a worse job in the interview with correspondent Brian Ross, who hammered him over the lack of lifeguards. There are good arguments on both sides of the life guards or no life guards issue...none of which were articulated by the chariman. Thoroughly unprepared for prime time.
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I just watched the special on 20/20 and I am appalled at the county commissioner's responses to putting life guards on the beaches. One actually came on national TV and said well, my best advice is don't go in the water. I pay over $7000.00 a year to the county taxes for a piece of land that is the size of a postage stamp and they are saying it is too expensive. My daughter and family members got caught in one over 4th of July week and luckily my brother in law knew what to do, but he had to make the decision, do I help my daughter or do I help my son who is getting pulled another direction. I believe Walton County Commissioners had better change some of their thinking. What can we do to get them to see the importance. As in previous threads, I would much rather see a life guard on the beach than some police officers sitting in their cars in the middle of 98.
I just watched the special on 20/20 and I am appalled at the county commissioner's responses to putting life guards on the beaches. One actually came on national TV and said well, my best advice is don't go in the water. I pay over $7000.00 a year to the county taxes for a piece of land that is the size of a postage stamp and they are saying it is too expensive. My daughter and family members got caught in one over 4th of July week and luckily my brother in law knew what to do, but he had to make the decision, do I help my daughter or do I help my son who is getting pulled another direction. I believe Walton County Commissioners had better change some of their thinking. What can we do to get them to see the importance. As in previous threads, I would much rather see a life guard on the beach than some police officers sitting in their cars in the middle of 98.
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I've been hammering at the TDC for two years about lifeguards, and I just got ignored. Walton County Commissioners have had their heads stuck in the sand for too long. I hope this story will shake them up.
After all, one of the guys who drowned was a former CNN correspondent! No wonder the media sat up and took notice when his wife spoke up.
I just watched the special on 20/20 and I am appalled at the county commissioner's responses to putting life guards on the beaches. One actually came on national TV and said well, my best advice is don't go in the water. I pay over $7000.00 a year to the county taxes for a piece of land that is the size of a postage stamp and they are saying it is too expensive. My daughter and family members got caught in one over 4th of July week and luckily my brother in law knew what to do, but he had to make the decision, do I help my daughter or do I help my son who is getting pulled another direction. I believe Walton County Commissioners had better change some of their thinking. What can we do to get them to see the importance. As in previous threads, I would much rather see a life guard on the beach than some police officers sitting in their cars in the middle of 98.
I've been hammering at the TDC for two years about lifeguards, and I just got ignored. Walton County Commissioners have had their heads stuck in the sand for too long. I hope this story will shake them up.
After all, one of the guys who drowned was a former CNN correspondent! No wonder the media sat up and took notice when his wife spoke up.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Re: ABC 20/20 story on Walton County and tourist safety
It's always heartbreaking when someone drowns. My heart goes out to these families who've lost their husbands/fathers.
The article does make Walton County sound callous and uncaring... but it's sad that people can ignore flag warnings, go in the water, and then blame others when they get into trouble. Educating yourself is your own responsibility. We educated ourselves thoroughly on riptides, sharks, jellyfish, sand dunes and sea turtles before ever stepping foot on a beach. I don't understand why people want to remain ignorant of such things, when entering unknown territory. People in the water swimming with double red flags flying? That just blows my mind. If any of them were harmed, they'd be pointing their fingers at others faster than you can say "Call ABC!".
It's always heartbreaking when someone drowns. My heart goes out to these families who've lost their husbands/fathers.
The article does make Walton County sound callous and uncaring... but it's sad that people can ignore flag warnings, go in the water, and then blame others when they get into trouble. Educating yourself is your own responsibility. We educated ourselves thoroughly on riptides, sharks, jellyfish, sand dunes and sea turtles before ever stepping foot on a beach. I don't understand why people want to remain ignorant of such things, when entering unknown territory. People in the water swimming with double red flags flying? That just blows my mind. If any of them were harmed, they'd be pointing their fingers at others faster than you can say "Call ABC!".
Admin
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
Many people have been forced out of the water, only to immediately return and die. You can post signs, flags, lifeguards every 50 feet and people will still enter the water and people will still die.
A Panama City official recently said, "We just don't have the resources. And if we did, we still might not be in the right place at the right time. So we do what we can through education and hope people take note".
Nevertheless, lifeguards will probably happen someday, as a reaction to the feeling of helplesness at the loss of life, and in the understood hope of saving just one life.
Vote in the polls:
http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=7673
http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=402
Many people have been forced out of the water, only to immediately return and die. You can post signs, flags, lifeguards every 50 feet and people will still enter the water and people will still die.
A Panama City official recently said, "We just don't have the resources. And if we did, we still might not be in the right place at the right time. So we do what we can through education and hope people take note".
Nevertheless, lifeguards will probably happen someday, as a reaction to the feeling of helplesness at the loss of life, and in the understood hope of saving just one life.
Vote in the polls:
http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=7673
http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=402
Admin
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I didn't see the piece, but I assume it was the same old tired formula, in which it is ABC's goal to make him look the fool, and it is his destiny to be the fool. Blame must be placed, and the Gulf Of Mexico was not available for interviews.
Whether you feel one way or the other about the issue, you have to admit this headline from ABC is ridiculous:
Dangerous Currents Stalk Florida Panhandle
And I thought it was sharks that were stalking us. :roll:
ABC's 20/20 feature on rip currents was informative. The chairman of the Walton County Commission couldn't have done a worse job in the interview with correspondent Brian Ross, who hammered him over the lack of lifeguards. There are good arguments on both sides of the life guards or no life guards issue...none of which were articulated by the chariman. Thoroughly unprepared for prime time.
I didn't see the piece, but I assume it was the same old tired formula, in which it is ABC's goal to make him look the fool, and it is his destiny to be the fool. Blame must be placed, and the Gulf Of Mexico was not available for interviews.
Whether you feel one way or the other about the issue, you have to admit this headline from ABC is ridiculous:
Dangerous Currents Stalk Florida Panhandle
And I thought it was sharks that were stalking us. :roll:
Edited
Meow
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
Sharks, storms, drownings, beach erosion, dunes collapsing, over-priced real estate, trash/debris on the beach, tents, seaweed, Hwy. 98, and now ABC!!! Pretty soon, there will be a lawsuit against the Gulf of Mexico! Go ahead, bring it on, SoWal is still the best place on earth for me!
How about this? Before you can go down to the beach, you must study the rules and then take a test to see if you have some sense!!! We just got back from Yellowstone and I can tell you we read and learned the rules set out for tourists! It doesn't hurt to be told over and over again to not feed the bears!!
I say (don't be offended please) ban the tents and try out lifeguards for a while! Does anyone know the standard distance between lifeguard stations? I read that the flag poles were still down in some places...still true?
When are the next commisioner elections? That poor dude....was that the best Walton Co. could do? "Don't go in the water."....maybe his next post could be with the tourist council! YIKES!
Sharks, storms, drownings, beach erosion, dunes collapsing, over-priced real estate, trash/debris on the beach, tents, seaweed, Hwy. 98, and now ABC!!! Pretty soon, there will be a lawsuit against the Gulf of Mexico! Go ahead, bring it on, SoWal is still the best place on earth for me!
How about this? Before you can go down to the beach, you must study the rules and then take a test to see if you have some sense!!! We just got back from Yellowstone and I can tell you we read and learned the rules set out for tourists! It doesn't hurt to be told over and over again to not feed the bears!!
I say (don't be offended please) ban the tents and try out lifeguards for a while! Does anyone know the standard distance between lifeguard stations? I read that the flag poles were still down in some places...still true?
When are the next commisioner elections? That poor dude....was that the best Walton Co. could do? "Don't go in the water."....maybe his next post could be with the tourist council! YIKES!
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
Of course people who use the beaches are responsible for their own actions and should obey the flags. But is it right to have them dying when lifeguards could make a real difference? ABC pointed out that lifeguards saved a lot of people in Daytona, which also has rip currents. I've been to guarded beaches on the Delaware / Maryland / Virginia coast where the waves are as big as any on the Panhandle, and where no one has drowned in decades.
Rip currents kill more people than sharks or hurricanes. Lifeguards may not be able to prevent every drowning but they can sure improve the odds. And as a property owner, I'm more than willing to pay my share of the cost. It would just about kill me if anything happened to one of my renters. Would any of us want to face Sandee Lamotte -- or, God forbid, the family of a future victim -- and tell them their loved one's life wasn't worth the expense?
I didn't see the piece, but I assume it was the same old tired formula, in which it is ABC's goal to make him look the fool, and it is his destiny to be the fool. Blame must be placed, and the Gulf Of Mexico was not available for interviews.Sorry, Kurt, but as much as I appreciate and admire this board, the headline was NOT ridiculous and the piece did NOT follow some "old tired formula." What's ridiculous is that the county has done absolutely nothing about this when the need for lifeguards was obvious long ago. Blaming ABC, the Gulf of Mexico, the visitors themselves, or each other :laughing1 isn't going to solve this problem.
Whether you feel one way or the other about the issue, you have to admit this headline from ABC is ridiculous:
Dangerous Currents Stalk Florida Panhandle
And I thought it was sharks that were stalking us. :roll:
Of course people who use the beaches are responsible for their own actions and should obey the flags. But is it right to have them dying when lifeguards could make a real difference? ABC pointed out that lifeguards saved a lot of people in Daytona, which also has rip currents. I've been to guarded beaches on the Delaware / Maryland / Virginia coast where the waves are as big as any on the Panhandle, and where no one has drowned in decades.
Rip currents kill more people than sharks or hurricanes. Lifeguards may not be able to prevent every drowning but they can sure improve the odds. And as a property owner, I'm more than willing to pay my share of the cost. It would just about kill me if anything happened to one of my renters. Would any of us want to face Sandee Lamotte -- or, God forbid, the family of a future victim -- and tell them their loved one's life wasn't worth the expense?
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
Kurt, with all due respect, this headline is probably the most accurate assessment of the biggest threat to swimmers along coastlines. I read a recent New York Times article which documented that more people are killed in rip currents each year than from any other hazard.
Point two: some flag poles were destroyed during Arlene, and most of the rest were taken out by Dennis. Without warning flags, the beach becomes even more dangerous to tourists.
No matter how any of us may feel about the stupidity of entering the water on a red flag, people do not deserve to die from ignorance, particularly children and teenagers. And rip currents can form even when the flags are yellow or green.
Lifeguards not only can save lives, but they can help educate people to the dangers. And if a lifeguard catches someone in the water on a double red flag, who resists their "advice" to leave the water, that person would be subject to a fine, according to my understanding of local ordinances.
Budgeting for lifeguards does not have to cost anything to property owners. Walton County can pass along any costs via the bed tax. It's my understanding that neighboring counties have already raised their bed tax higher than ours anyway.
I agree with Bluznbeach on this one.
I didn't see the piece, but I assume it was the same old tired formula, in which it is ABC's goal to make him look the fool, and it is his destiny to be the fool. Blame must be placed, and the Gulf Of Mexico was not available for interviews.
Whether you feel one way or the other about the issue, you have to admit this headline from ABC is ridiculous:
Dangerous Currents Stalk Florida Panhandle
And I thought it was sharks that were stalking us. :roll:
Kurt, with all due respect, this headline is probably the most accurate assessment of the biggest threat to swimmers along coastlines. I read a recent New York Times article which documented that more people are killed in rip currents each year than from any other hazard.
Point two: some flag poles were destroyed during Arlene, and most of the rest were taken out by Dennis. Without warning flags, the beach becomes even more dangerous to tourists.
No matter how any of us may feel about the stupidity of entering the water on a red flag, people do not deserve to die from ignorance, particularly children and teenagers. And rip currents can form even when the flags are yellow or green.
Lifeguards not only can save lives, but they can help educate people to the dangers. And if a lifeguard catches someone in the water on a double red flag, who resists their "advice" to leave the water, that person would be subject to a fine, according to my understanding of local ordinances.
Budgeting for lifeguards does not have to cost anything to property owners. Walton County can pass along any costs via the bed tax. It's my understanding that neighboring counties have already raised their bed tax higher than ours anyway.
I agree with Bluznbeach on this one.
Edited
Christini Zambini
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I still say it is the individual's responsibility to stay safe. A few years ago we had family visiting during a week when there were red flag conditions. My brother-in-law insisted on taking his 3 very small children to the beach so they could boogie board on the "big waves." I repeatedly warned him of the dangers and told him specifically of the 8 drownings that had, at that time, just happened. He didn't care. He did take his kids to the beach and they boogie boarded for hours, had a great time, and were safe. Its like Russian Roulette though. This guy is a good dad who wouldn't leave the driveway without his kids in carseats.
I think lifeguards might help at the major beach accesses, but there is no way to patrol the entire beach. People like my brother-in-law are going to do what they want to do and won't listen to a lifeguard anyway.
I still say it is the individual's responsibility to stay safe. A few years ago we had family visiting during a week when there were red flag conditions. My brother-in-law insisted on taking his 3 very small children to the beach so they could boogie board on the "big waves." I repeatedly warned him of the dangers and told him specifically of the 8 drownings that had, at that time, just happened. He didn't care. He did take his kids to the beach and they boogie boarded for hours, had a great time, and were safe. Its like Russian Roulette though. This guy is a good dad who wouldn't leave the driveway without his kids in carseats.
I think lifeguards might help at the major beach accesses, but there is no way to patrol the entire beach. People like my brother-in-law are going to do what they want to do and won't listen to a lifeguard anyway.
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
People can drown from rip currents even when the flag is flying yellow or green. It takes time for the flags to be changed when the surf conditions change. They don't change like a traffic light. Lifeguards are needed as part of the safety system.
In many beach communities, penalties may be imposed for failing to immediately obey all orders, direction whistles or other signals by lifeguards.
Walton County could enact similar laws that makes it mandatory to obey the lifeguard or the sheriff will be called.
I still say it is the individual's responsibility to stay safe. A few years ago we had family visiting during a week when there were red flag conditions. My brother-in-law insisted on taking his 3 very small children to the beach so they could boogie board on the "big waves." I repeatedly warned him of the dangers and told him specifically of the 8 drownings that had, at that time, just happened. He didn't care. He did take his kids to the beach and they boogie boarded for hours, had a great time, and were safe. Its like Russian Roulette though. This guy is a good dad who wouldn't leave the driveway without his kids in carseats.
I think lifeguards might help at the major beach accesses, but there is no way to patrol the entire beach. People like my brother-in-law are going to do what they want to do and won't listen to a lifeguard anyway.
People can drown from rip currents even when the flag is flying yellow or green. It takes time for the flags to be changed when the surf conditions change. They don't change like a traffic light. Lifeguards are needed as part of the safety system.
In many beach communities, penalties may be imposed for failing to immediately obey all orders, direction whistles or other signals by lifeguards.
Walton County could enact similar laws that makes it mandatory to obey the lifeguard or the sheriff will be called.
Edited
SoWal Insider
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I still say it is the individual's responsibility to stay safe. A few years ago we had family visiting during a week when there were red flag conditions. My brother-in-law insisted on taking his 3 very small children to the beach so they could boogie board on the "big waves." I repeatedly warned him of the dangers and told him specifically of the 8 drownings that had, at that time, just happened. He didn't care. He did take his kids to the beach and they boogie boarded for hours, had a great time, and were safe. Its like Russian Roulette though. This guy is a good dad who wouldn't leave the driveway without his kids in carseats.50 people in 5 years drown in the area. Individual responsibility? Wow!
I think lifeguards might help at the major beach accesses, but there is no way to patrol the entire beach. People like my brother-in-law are going to do what they want to do and won't listen to a lifeguard anyway.
Admin
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
This board is about all our opinions and knowledge, mine is not any more important than anyone elses.
I'm not saying the the basis for the story is ridiculous, and I see both side of the issue. I'm saying rip tides don't "stalk". Anthropomorphism used in a completely innapropriate way to sensationalize a story and prey on the public's primal fears, inciting those fears to sell advertisements and increase profits.
The culture of fear produces and devours headlines like that. Don't give in to unreasonable fears, like hurricanes, sharks, snakes, currents, mold, or sushi. If driving a car was a primal fear, we'd never leave the house. Be a little more skeptical about the content and the motives. Keep things in perspective.
This board is about all our opinions and knowledge, mine is not any more important than anyone elses.
I'm not saying the the basis for the story is ridiculous, and I see both side of the issue. I'm saying rip tides don't "stalk". Anthropomorphism used in a completely innapropriate way to sensationalize a story and prey on the public's primal fears, inciting those fears to sell advertisements and increase profits.
The culture of fear produces and devours headlines like that. Don't give in to unreasonable fears, like hurricanes, sharks, snakes, currents, mold, or sushi. If driving a car was a primal fear, we'd never leave the house. Be a little more skeptical about the content and the motives. Keep things in perspective.
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
I saw the story on 20/20 and it was presented in a sensationalistic fashion.
It is very sad that the former CNN correspondent lost his life. From what I read on another message board, the correspondent was already pulled from the water earlier that day...but allowed his kids to boogie board and that is what had him go back in the water. I do not think 20/20 told that he had already been pulled from the water...
So, as sad as it is, is the point of the story that someone who needed to be pulled out of the water already needs a lifeguard there to admonish them to stay out of the water and to keep his kids out of the water?
I have noticed the Seemore Crab info in the few times I have been there the past few years. Maybe it is too 'friendly' for the average person to understand about rip currents?
I saw the story on 20/20 and it was presented in a sensationalistic fashion.
It is very sad that the former CNN correspondent lost his life. From what I read on another message board, the correspondent was already pulled from the water earlier that day...but allowed his kids to boogie board and that is what had him go back in the water. I do not think 20/20 told that he had already been pulled from the water...
So, as sad as it is, is the point of the story that someone who needed to be pulled out of the water already needs a lifeguard there to admonish them to stay out of the water and to keep his kids out of the water?
I have noticed the Seemore Crab info in the few times I have been there the past few years. Maybe it is too 'friendly' for the average person to understand about rip currents?
Edited
SoWal Insider
South Walton on 20/20 (ABC TV)
Did anyone catch the story on 20/20 about riptides and the absence of life guards in South Walton on 20/20 last night (July22)? Didn't make South Walton look too concerned about the safety of visitors. When the interviewer asked what South Walton was doing to protect swimmers the response was, "Well, we've got Seymore the Crab," and then 20/20 cut to the goofy cartoon of the crab talking about beach safety.
Then rest of the interview went something like this:
20/20: Are you planning on hiring lifeguards?
SOWAL: Uh, yeah, sometime
20/20: When? This year?
SOWAL: Uh, no, probably not this year, maybe next year.
20/20: What should tourists do to ensure their safety until you get lifeguards?
SOWAL: They should stay out of the water.
Priceless! :shock:
Did anyone catch the story on 20/20 about riptides and the absence of life guards in South Walton on 20/20 last night (July22)? Didn't make South Walton look too concerned about the safety of visitors. When the interviewer asked what South Walton was doing to protect swimmers the response was, "Well, we've got Seymore the Crab," and then 20/20 cut to the goofy cartoon of the crab talking about beach safety.
Then rest of the interview went something like this:
20/20: Are you planning on hiring lifeguards?
SOWAL: Uh, yeah, sometime
20/20: When? This year?
SOWAL: Uh, no, probably not this year, maybe next year.
20/20: What should tourists do to ensure their safety until you get lifeguards?
SOWAL: They should stay out of the water.
Priceless! :shock:
Beach Lover
Let's discuss lifeguards, not flag warning systems
I've been reading the thread about the flag warning systems. It is obvious to me that the colored flag warnings are not very effective at preventing drownings in the gulf.
What I would prefer to discuss is what IS effective.
Sandee LaMott, the wife of the retired CNN correspondent who drowned at Grayton Beach, happens to work for WebMD. There is a really excellent article on the WebMD web site about rip currents and lifeguards. The entire article is here: http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/66/79889.htm?printing=true
It also contains excellent information on what to do if you or someone else is caught in a rip current.
The article, dated Tuesday, June 17, 2003, says:
About 12 Americans drown every day. Yet on beaches protected by lifeguards, the odds of drowning are one in 16 million, according to the U.S. Lifeguard Association. That's five times safer than on unprotected beaches.
Unfortunately, in these days of cuts in government services, fewer and fewer beaches employ trained lifeguards.
"The one factor that is most tragic about rip-current deaths is they wouldn't happen if there were lifeguards," Wernicki says. (Peter Wernicki, MD, is medical advisor to the U.S. and World Lifesaving Associations.)
"I think a large number of people who go to the beach are from inland. They are not good swimmers; they are not familiar with ocean currents. They don't have a clue what to do in an emergency. I think they are lured onto unprotected beaches. 'Come to our beach, it is clean,' they say. But maybe if they were better informed they would choose to go to beaches with lifeguards."
Sandee LaMotte is angry. She is working to get Florida municipalities to pass "Larry's Law" -- requiring lifeguards on all public beaches.
"The current lack of protection is just callous disregard for human life," she says. "It has to change."
B. Chris Brewster, retired San Diego lifeguard chief and national certification committee chair for the U.S. Lifesaving Association, is widely regarded as an expert on rip currents. He has been working for years to get Florida Gulf coast municipalities to establish lifeguards. Last week, the mayor and fire chief of Destin, Fla., spoke with him about establishing a lifeguard service. Most other northwest Florida communities, he says, haven't been as cooperative.
"It is my personal judgment that these communities are not going to change until forced to do so, shamed to do so -- which would take a lot -- or until they feel economically compelled to do so," Brewster says.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with any of the individuals named in the story above and have never met any of them. But I think their case is very convincing and as a Walton County property owner, I fully support what Sandee LaMotte wants to accomplish. I hope that others will stand behind her in demanding safer beaches for our tourists in Walton County.
Having lifeguards does not have to cost property owners anything. The tourist development tax (or "bed tax" as it is known) could be used to pass the costs on to the tourist.
I can anticipate the argument that "people won't pay any attention to lifeguards." No, not if the county simply hires them and doesn't give them any authority. But many beach communities make it a violation of the law to disobey a lifeguard, and Walton County could do the same.
We have waited far too long to act on this problem. ABC's 20/20 last night has cast a cloud over Walton County and the county commisioner's interview in that televised news story makes the county appear callous, uninformed, and indifferent to the problem.
Just my 2 cents.
I've been reading the thread about the flag warning systems. It is obvious to me that the colored flag warnings are not very effective at preventing drownings in the gulf.
What I would prefer to discuss is what IS effective.
Sandee LaMott, the wife of the retired CNN correspondent who drowned at Grayton Beach, happens to work for WebMD. There is a really excellent article on the WebMD web site about rip currents and lifeguards. The entire article is here: http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/66/79889.htm?printing=true
It also contains excellent information on what to do if you or someone else is caught in a rip current.
The article, dated Tuesday, June 17, 2003, says:
About 12 Americans drown every day. Yet on beaches protected by lifeguards, the odds of drowning are one in 16 million, according to the U.S. Lifeguard Association. That's five times safer than on unprotected beaches.
Unfortunately, in these days of cuts in government services, fewer and fewer beaches employ trained lifeguards.
"The one factor that is most tragic about rip-current deaths is they wouldn't happen if there were lifeguards," Wernicki says. (Peter Wernicki, MD, is medical advisor to the U.S. and World Lifesaving Associations.)
"I think a large number of people who go to the beach are from inland. They are not good swimmers; they are not familiar with ocean currents. They don't have a clue what to do in an emergency. I think they are lured onto unprotected beaches. 'Come to our beach, it is clean,' they say. But maybe if they were better informed they would choose to go to beaches with lifeguards."
Sandee LaMotte is angry. She is working to get Florida municipalities to pass "Larry's Law" -- requiring lifeguards on all public beaches.
"The current lack of protection is just callous disregard for human life," she says. "It has to change."
B. Chris Brewster, retired San Diego lifeguard chief and national certification committee chair for the U.S. Lifesaving Association, is widely regarded as an expert on rip currents. He has been working for years to get Florida Gulf coast municipalities to establish lifeguards. Last week, the mayor and fire chief of Destin, Fla., spoke with him about establishing a lifeguard service. Most other northwest Florida communities, he says, haven't been as cooperative.
"It is my personal judgment that these communities are not going to change until forced to do so, shamed to do so -- which would take a lot -- or until they feel economically compelled to do so," Brewster says.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with any of the individuals named in the story above and have never met any of them. But I think their case is very convincing and as a Walton County property owner, I fully support what Sandee LaMotte wants to accomplish. I hope that others will stand behind her in demanding safer beaches for our tourists in Walton County.
Having lifeguards does not have to cost property owners anything. The tourist development tax (or "bed tax" as it is known) could be used to pass the costs on to the tourist.
I can anticipate the argument that "people won't pay any attention to lifeguards." No, not if the county simply hires them and doesn't give them any authority. But many beach communities make it a violation of the law to disobey a lifeguard, and Walton County could do the same.
We have waited far too long to act on this problem. ABC's 20/20 last night has cast a cloud over Walton County and the county commisioner's interview in that televised news story makes the county appear callous, uninformed, and indifferent to the problem.
Just my 2 cents.
Christini Zambini
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
My brother-in-law had all the information about the dangers indicated by the red flags and he still CHOSE to go into the water. It was his responsibility. I have children the same age and I CHOSE to keep them off the beach.
There would have to be a lifeguard every 200 yards to patrol the entire beach. You can have lifeguards, laws, fines, jail time, etc. and that is still not going to prevent every drowning. People will find ways to get around every law and go into the water when they shouldn't. People disobey laws all the time--speeding, seat belts, running stop signs, etc. I understand that many of the drownings have occurred without warning and I agree that lifeguards would help in some situations.
I had a two-year-old son who almost drowned in a public pool even though he was 5 feet from a lifeguard. I am the one who pulled my son out of the water. If I had relied on the lifeguard to protect him, my child wouldn't be alive today.
We have choices and we have consequences. We are responsible for our own actions.
50 people in 5 years drown in the area. Individual responsibility? Wow!
My brother-in-law had all the information about the dangers indicated by the red flags and he still CHOSE to go into the water. It was his responsibility. I have children the same age and I CHOSE to keep them off the beach.
There would have to be a lifeguard every 200 yards to patrol the entire beach. You can have lifeguards, laws, fines, jail time, etc. and that is still not going to prevent every drowning. People will find ways to get around every law and go into the water when they shouldn't. People disobey laws all the time--speeding, seat belts, running stop signs, etc. I understand that many of the drownings have occurred without warning and I agree that lifeguards would help in some situations.
I had a two-year-old son who almost drowned in a public pool even though he was 5 feet from a lifeguard. I am the one who pulled my son out of the water. If I had relied on the lifeguard to protect him, my child wouldn't be alive today.
We have choices and we have consequences. We are responsible for our own actions.
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
If we follow this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, we would eliminate lifeguards, seatbelts, testing of prescription drugs before they are put on the market, the USDA food inspection to keep the food supply safe, and anything else designed to improve human safety.
I had a two-year-old son who almost drowned in a public pool even though he was 5 feet from a lifeguard. I am the one who pulled my son out of the water. If I had relied on the lifeguard to protect him, my child wouldn't be alive today.
We have choices and we have consequences. We are responsible for our own actions.
If we follow this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, we would eliminate lifeguards, seatbelts, testing of prescription drugs before they are put on the market, the USDA food inspection to keep the food supply safe, and anything else designed to improve human safety.
Edited
Beach Comber
I have to agree with Camp Creek Kid on this one. Lifeguards won't keep all people from drowning in rip currents. Period.
Sure, they may help and they may save a few lives but it won't solve the problem entirely and believing that throwing a few lifeguards on the beach would all of a sudden make the beach "safe" isn't realistic. It could perhaps create a false sense of security too - maybe have the opposite effect - who knows.
Now, that isn't to say there shouldn't be lifeguards, or seatbelt laws, etc. There should but what I hear Camp Creek saying (and believe whole-heartedly) is people will do whatever they set their minds to. A lot of these individuals also do not take responsibility for their actions and look to blame someone or something else when their actions backfire. And if you don't believe me - work all day long with the public in any type of customer service job you can find - after a few days, you'll change your mind
So bottomline - if lifeguards can save some lives - great all for it but they aren't the magic pill and some lives will still be lost, whether they are there or not.
Sure, they may help and they may save a few lives but it won't solve the problem entirely and believing that throwing a few lifeguards on the beach would all of a sudden make the beach "safe" isn't realistic. It could perhaps create a false sense of security too - maybe have the opposite effect - who knows.
Now, that isn't to say there shouldn't be lifeguards, or seatbelt laws, etc. There should but what I hear Camp Creek saying (and believe whole-heartedly) is people will do whatever they set their minds to. A lot of these individuals also do not take responsibility for their actions and look to blame someone or something else when their actions backfire. And if you don't believe me - work all day long with the public in any type of customer service job you can find - after a few days, you'll change your mind
So bottomline - if lifeguards can save some lives - great all for it but they aren't the magic pill and some lives will still be lost, whether they are there or not.
Beach Lover
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
Kurt, we *are* trying to keep things in perspective. Fear of having children drown is not even slightly irrational. After motor vehicle related deaths, drowning is the second leading cause of injury death for children.
As for hair-splitting about the use of the word stalking: Stalking may not be completely correctly used in their headline, but referring to their use of it as "anthropomorphism" isn't exactly correct either. Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena. Since animals stalk as well as humans, it's not technically anthropomorphism to use the term "stalking".
(Though there may well be another more correct term for it.)
Sometimes it takes headlines like this to get people's attention in all the noise of everyday life. Maybe it's not technically correct to use "stalking", but once you see the story as it is reported, you realize, yes, there IS a problem here, and it's much greater than sharks, etc.
The problem is indifference on the part of the county to reducing the risk of drowning, and 20/20 pointed that out very accurately, in my opinion.
This board is about all our opinions and knowledge, mine is not any more important than anyone elses.
I'm not saying the the basis for the story is ridiculous, and I see both side of the issue. I'm saying rip tides don't "stalk". Anthropomorphism used in a completely innapropriate way to sensationalize a story and prey on the public's primal fears, inciting those fears to sell advertisements and increase profits.
The culture of fear produces and devours headlines like that. Don't give in to unreasonable fears, like hurricanes, sharks, snakes, currents, mold, or sushi. If driving a car was a primal fear, we'd never leave the house. Be a little more skeptical about the content and the motives. Keep things in perspective.
Kurt, we *are* trying to keep things in perspective. Fear of having children drown is not even slightly irrational. After motor vehicle related deaths, drowning is the second leading cause of injury death for children.
As for hair-splitting about the use of the word stalking: Stalking may not be completely correctly used in their headline, but referring to their use of it as "anthropomorphism" isn't exactly correct either. Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena. Since animals stalk as well as humans, it's not technically anthropomorphism to use the term "stalking".
(Though there may well be another more correct term for it.)Sometimes it takes headlines like this to get people's attention in all the noise of everyday life. Maybe it's not technically correct to use "stalking", but once you see the story as it is reported, you realize, yes, there IS a problem here, and it's much greater than sharks, etc.
The problem is indifference on the part of the county to reducing the risk of drowning, and 20/20 pointed that out very accurately, in my opinion.
Beach Fanatic
Re: Need to Post and Enforce Flag System - More Drownings
This board is about all our opinions and knowledge, mine is not any more important than anyone elses.Bingo. Media is very much about spin. Spin is about evoking emotion, not conveying fact.
I'm not saying the the basis for the story is ridiculous, and I see both side of the issue. I'm saying rip tides don't "stalk". Anthropomorphism used in a completely innapropriate way to sensationalize a story and prey on the public's primal fears, inciting those fears to sell advertisements and increase profits.
The culture of fear produces and devours headlines like that. Don't give in to unreasonable fears, like hurricanes, sharks, snakes, currents, mold, or sushi. If driving a car was a primal fear, we'd never leave the house. Be a little more skeptical about the content and the motives. Keep things in perspective.
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