Minimum Wage for SoWal???

Yes, the people who know (or who are) waiters and business owners could get some answers about what it's like to do service work in the area if they want to spend some time doing so (Kimmifunn gave her first-hand opinion). And the people who state their position in economic terms (e.g., minimum wage) can get some useful data, too, based on more general economic trends if they want to spend some time doing so. Both strategies would be useful -- it's called systematic research. But it looks like we are not likely to do either through this message board (Heck, I'm not going to) because the board is in large part entertainment. So (1) we should remember that many of our comments are based on opinion rooted in our own view of the world rather than any real research -- for whatever reasons some of us want to promote an "it's going to crash" view of SoWal and others want to promote a "what a great place to be" view of SoWal (both, of course, are simplistic views, though they each promote different kinds of behaviors and solutions to problems), and (2) that's why we need to do what we can in small ways as individuals to make SoWal better for business owners, workers, guests, owners, etc. -- at least until someone gets some data (and it probably should be long-term data).

SJ or someone: Can you pull me out of the sandbox... turn my attention back to the food thread? I can't seem to stop myself.

I posted this a year ago from an article I saw. Has anyone heard any more about it?

Affordable housing coming to Walton County

I heard that Dewey Wilson, the owner of Regional Utilities, put that project on hold for the moment. I did not hear why.

Doesn't a local market usually settle in to a local minimum wage? With some variations and some back and forth?

Doesn't a local market usually settle in to a local minimum wage? With some variations and some back and forth?

I think you are correct, Kurt. If an employer want employees, he better be paying the going rate or be willing to work all by his lonesome. Several employers such as Seaside and WaterColor apparently are not willing to pay employees, so they are paying the Walton Sun et al to run ads year round. I guess with WaterColor, it could also be that in order to get cheaper liability insurance, they drug screen ther employee applicants for illegal drugs, which many people feel invades their privacy.

If 39 1/2 hours was considered part-time, every company would work 39 1/2 hours instead of 40 to avoid paying benefits. Except, of course, those companies with a big, compassionate heart. (I've heard of a company like that, but it was long, long ago.---In a foreign country). In my region, 26 hours a week or more is considered full-time. Since the federal mininum wage is still just $5.15 an hour, although some states have higher mininum wages of their own, even the highest I saw was at around $7.63 an hour and that is not enough to pay rent and all other living expenses including utilities and groceries and gas, especially if they have to drive 2 hours each way to their work. Pitiful situation!

Please bare with me, as my wife says I can be long winded.

We always vacationed at Carrilon Beach at the west end of Bay County, never wanted to venture east into Bay very much just to eat at a few places. After retiring, In June of 2003 I stumbled on a place called Palmetto Trace, I was ready to buy an affordable second home, however I had to get in a lottery to get a lot because of what I was told to make it fair to everyone as investors were starting to buy. Well, I finally got my packet to get in the lottery some 15 months later, oddly enough a week after Ivan hit in September 2004. The house I had wanted went from $142,000 to $225,000 during that time frame which put me out of range for a second home.

The other day I read an old post on this site about St Joe stock, a comment about them making bad investments by gearing to lower income developments such as Palmetto Trace.

Now to my point we all know the profits made in this area since 2000, once the profit takers realize there is a real need for affordable single family housing with a real community feel in this area things could improve. I don't know the area north of 30A but maybe it's inland a few miles, but it would help with the problem of workers. Many people like myself and other baby boomers taking early retirement would be glad to take part time jobs, just to live here half the year.

I may be way off, but this is just my personal feelings/ideas.

I too would like to own a home there. We rent on the west end of the beach at Inlet Beach. We do all our activities in PC Beach. I looked online one time at homes in PC Beach and could not believe I found homes listed for what ours cost that are not on the coast and some for less. Our home appraised for around $103,500 for a house a little over 1500 square feet with actually just what they call two bedrooms and one bath although a 1/2 bath exists also off of a room like a den. Some homes I viewed online were around that and I even saw one fairly nice home around $90,000.00! Of course, these were not on the beach. Didn't think any existed that cheap there.

If 39 1/2 hours was considered part-time, every company would work 39 1/2 hours instead of 40 to avoid paying benefits....

Not true.

From Dol.gov:
"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not define part-time or full-time employment; rather, this is generally a matter of agreement between the employer and the employee."

You talk about some one-sided, employer-slanted laws check them out at:

http://www.dol.gov/dolfaq/dolfaqBYs...urs&topicid=1&thetopicname=Wages+&+Work+Hours

You talk about some one-sided, employer-slanted laws check them out at:

http://www.dol.gov/dolfaq/dolfaqBYsubtopic.asp?subtopicid=6&title=Work+Hours&topicid=1&thetopicname=Wages+%26+Work+Hours

perhaps you meant to give a specific link rather than a list of FAQs? Please relate it to SoWal.

Here's the deal. Investors don't care about affordable housing. Second home owners don't care about affordable housing. People who vacation here cook shrimp, make sandwiches, sit on the beach and go back to their home where there is affordable food, housing, things to do, etc. How many people responding to this thread actually live here - full-time. I want to know how many people who have an opinion have lived here full-time, longer than three or more continuous years, have their jobs here, their futures here. How many perspectives are there? Where are they coming from? How many of you are actually locals??? I want to know so I can evaluate the opinions of those who know what they are talking about and those who don't.

If you spend a weekend a month or a couple of weeks a year or visit friends or family when you get the time, I'd like to know so I can judge who knows, and who does not know, what they are talking about.

One of those FAQs related what you stated earlier in regards to the full-time employment question. It is really enlightening to view some of the laws or "no-laws" that pertain to labor and employment. It seems that our lawmakers believe in a more-or-less hands off approach to labor rules and regulations at least as it applies to employee benefits.

I do I do....full timers choose it ......they complain but they choose to live here and they wouldn't leave if momma made them. I've watched for years waiters and bussers and service staff say: need to move on get some cash and get a life......most of them are still in it....good waiter down here makes.....45k a year or more depending on what's reported and who they work for...I can think of a few people that did really well being waitstaff and bought on 30a, waiters! Now, granted that time has passed but take a look at some of the staff round here and see how long they have been there! Easy work schedule, days off, great working atmospheres! If I was going to blame some of the problems on someone, I'd say it was the landlords of the shops themselves. commercial rent around here is astronomical. how is a business owner going to pay top wages and make an income and pay 65/ft? and we are seasonal still! If we had a year round consistant crowd maybe..look at how someone like B and A's has to cut staff or any store or service oriented place/job...Seaside loses like 50 employee's a season. no wonder we see so many transient workers...it's not that bad really, look at all the successful jumps waiters made to real estate, I see many that are doing very well.......hmmm, couple of weeks in class, take a job for remax and boom cash money.....well maybe not that easy! I'm a normal guy, married, one kid live in Sowal and am fairing ok.....no education to speak of, not overly connected, just came down and went to work. It's not my first tourist town to live in and this problem is pretty much the norm! you won't see alot of affordable housing cause the county has to balance the issues that come along with it.....schools, police, crime,abuse etc....with the service staff you bring in its darker side. and we are all so bright and shiny people! oh we could go on and on about this!

Here's the deal. Investors don't care about affordable housing. Second home owners don't care about affordable housing. People who vacation here cook shrimp, make sandwiches, sit on the beach and go back to their home where there is affordable food, housing, things to do, etc. How many people responding to this thread actually live here - full-time. I want to know how many people who have an opinion have lived here full-time, longer than three or more continuous years, have their jobs here, their futures here. How many perspectives are there? Where are they coming from? How many of you are actually locals??? I want to know so I can evaluate the opinions of those who know what they are talking about and those who don't.

If you spend a weekend a month or a couple of weeks a year or visit friends or family when you get the time, I'd like to know so I can judge who knows, and who does not know, what they are talking about.

I humbly agree with you on this one, WaltonUndercurrent (which is why I'm going to try to keep my opinions off of this thread now). Though I care deeply about SoWal and expect to live there much of the year in about 7 years and do some kind of work there, I am not there often enough now to have a deep understanding of the current year-round situation that would enable me to have a better understanding of the consequences of different ideas (although I will most certainly live with the consequences at some point). In particular, I appreciate the first-hand comments on this thread of the people who have worked in SoWal as waiters/waitresses, as well as the comments from the people who are actually looking around for affordable housing around Panama City Beach.

you'd figure the large developement companies would take the lead in the housing situation, since they are highly dependant on the workers needed, but it's all about the $/acre. old news, i know. st. joe is relatively new at this but leucadia is not. they've been dealing with resort labor and development issues for years already, in salt lake, telluride, napa, and now here and a new 'community' in maine. i see no employee housing covenants included in docs at rosemary or draper lake. the slack will have to be addressed by the county. they'll end up being a landlord of apt style housing units that will be the only place the above mentioned employees can afford. hopefully the county will wake up soon and demand a portion of density be directed towards workforce housing.

leucadia article
http://www.workingwaterfront.com/article.asp?storyID=20051105


jr

you'd figure the large developement companies would take the lead in the housing situation, since they are highly dependant on the workers needed, but it's all about the $/acre. old news, i know. st. joe is relatively new at this but leucadia is not. they've been dealing with resort labor and development issues for years already, in salt lake, telluride, napa, and now here and a new 'community' in maine. i see no employee housing covenants included in docs at rosemary or draper lake. the slack will have to be addressed by the county. they'll end up being a landlord of apt style housing units that will be the only place the above mentioned employees can afford. hopefully the county will wake up soon and demand a portion of density be directed towards workforce housing.

leucadia article
http://www.workingwaterfront.com/article.asp?storyID=20051105

jr

The county did direct Joe to include AH before approving WaterSound North. But I don't believe specifics were addressed other than number of units.

The county did direct Joe to include AH before approving WaterSound North. But I don't believe specifics were addressed other than number of units.

...and "affordable housing" really does not address housing for the service labor pool. It is more likely to be geared toward management, but at least it is a start.

Semi-local here. We moved down here in 1998, and have been living next county over since then. The first place we lived was on Okaloosa Island, and we paid $600/month to rent a two bedroom townhouse just across the way from the Best Western that was like a minute's walk to the beach. When units went up for sale in our building, they were going for $60-$70K. We thought it was really cool that middle class folks could live so close to the Gulf, and that even though pay was pretty terrible in some ways, housing was cheap enough that a service industry couple could still afford to buy a home not too far from work.

Funny how things change so quickly.

that's good to know kurt, thanks. what needs to be figured out now is what is considered to be affordable housing; - multi-unit dwellings for hourly workers, - deed restricted, max resale cap single family homes, or - smaller sq foot dwellings that will be slated as AH, but will be snapped up by those in the know before the common joe even knows they're available.

jr

OK...great. Now we've established a starting point. Since you know these folks personally what are they saying?

Seems like you're the guy on the ground...let us know what "real world" research you've collected and we can start from there. I'm ready to focus!

No, I'm not the starting point. My perspective is too limited due to the fact that most of my friends have been here a long time and are comfortably established.

But, I can understand the help a well researched line of reasoning on this topic would be to new arrivals/business owners.

That is why I am asking the question instead of answering it.

that's good to know kurt, thanks. what needs to be figured out now is what is considered to be affordable housing; - multi-unit dwellings for hourly workers, - deed restricted, max resale cap single family homes, or - smaller sq foot dwellings that will be slated as AH, but will be snapped up by those in the know before the common joe even knows they're available.

jr

The gov't has a definition for "affordable housing" and it is based on income levels of people in the particular county. The last time I saw the numbers, most houses falling into that category would still be somewhat "unaffordable" to young service employees wanting to purchase a home. You can probably do a search to find the numbers for WalCo.

No, I'm not the starting point. My perspective is too limited due to the fact that most of my friends have been here a long time and are comfortably established.

But, I can understand the help a well researched line of reasoning on this topic would be to new arrivals/business owners.

That is why I am asking the question instead of answering it.

Now...if they could just find a place to live in SoWal for $816 per month (including utilities) and a job that pays $15.68 per hour employees would be on Easy Street.

It Says Living in Walton is Cheap!

Now let's move on to buying medical insurance and 401K funding.

well, what about the development on S. Church street in Santa Rosa. Those are entry level homes at best and if that is the standard set around here...I'll pass.

Now...if they could just find a place to live in SoWal for $816 per month (including utilities) and a job that pays $15.68 per hour employees would be on Easy Street.

It Says Living in Walton is Cheap!

Now let's move on to buying medical insurance and 401K funding.

Very helpful link.

I noticed however, that you quoted the state numbers.

For the FWB/Crestview/Destin area the Fair Market Rent for a 2 bedroom place is $628. And the corresponding hourly rate was $12.08.

I doubt anyone can find a 2 bedroom apt. in sowal for $628/month but if we believe the data, those places are available within a 30-45 min commute of us.

Interesting, Maybe this will be of help to someone.

Very helpful link.

I doubt anyone can find a 2 bedroom apt. in sowal for $628/month but if we believe the data, those places are available within a 30-45 min commute of us.
Maybe this will be of help to someone.

(1) I don't believe in the data. (I'd believe in Santa first)

(2) Employers who do use this data should give their employees a list of these $628 per month apartments (including utilities) along with their wage offer.

(3) Doesn't adequately reflect apartments taken off the market for "condo conversions" or prices jacked up with "hurricane/real estate boom" premiums.

If business people in SoWal and Destin are using these numbers to justify low wages....they're going to end up getting what they paid for.