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Minimum Wage for SoWal???

Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
18,022 views
Minimum wage NEVER is equal to a living wage ANYWHERE in the USA. But when the employer insists on a 39 1/2 hour work week (to avoid benefits) that's essentially what it's become.

I personally think the commute for low-wage employees back and forth to SoWal from "affordable" areas accounts for at least 2 hours of unpaid work per day. So at $12.50 ph for 8 hours in SoWal would be $100 per day which (if you add on the 2-hour commute) would come out to $10 per hour. Considering the additional cost of gas, wear & tear on the car, a jacked-up car insurance bill and commuting headaches...is it any wonder some would prefer just to roll out of bed and put in their 10 hours for 4-days at the DeFuniak Tastee-Freeze for a couple bucks less and getting another local part-time job to make up the couple bucks difference on the 5th day?

Just think--these poor souls have to work 1 1/2 hours to buy a fish sandwich off the bar menu at Cafe 30A (just as an example). Someone is making the money at the businesses in the area....employers are going to have to start narrowing their profit margins (or raising their prices) to pay their workers more (and yes, that may mean paying a living wage) or they will find it difficult to staff their establishments when the customers with money come rolling in the door.

The cheap labor who used to live in the surrounding communities have been pushed out of the area to make way for upscale development--now they want them to make a long commute back down in heavy, dangerous traffic for low wages? I don't think so.

Shelly, I appreciate your look at this. Working out another step brings forth another question. If these businesses, including restaurants, raise their prices to help pay higher wages, that employee to which you refer will now have more money to pay for that now even more expensive sandwich at Cafe 30A, but he wouldn't he still have to work 1.5 hours to do so, and wouldn't everyone else have to pay more too, including people not in the service industry?:idontno:

Replies

99
Kimmifunn avatar
Funnkalicious
#52
When I moved down there last year for "work" I scowered the place for "affordable" housing. I ended up renting an apartment in Destin- where I was working- at Legacy on the Bay. That was one of LITERALLY about 4 apartment complexes. There's nowhere to live. I was in a 2br and it was like $1050 or something like that. It was a super nice development. But unless I wanted to go over a bridge (Mid-Bay or 331) there's slim pickins. Sooo when they hand over that list I'd love to see it. Not to mention...those 4 complexes have HUGE waiting lists. I somehow walked in the same day someone cancelled moving in. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Sandestin offers housing... I came upon it and we had to ask around to figure it out. I also checked out a senior living home. I was desperate.
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#53
(1) I don't believe in the data. (I'd believe in Santa first)

(2) Employers who do use this data should give their employees a list of these $628 per month apartments (including utilities) along with their wage offer.

(3) Doesn't adequately reflect apartments taken off the market for "condo conversions" or prices jacked up with "hurricane/real estate boom" premiums.

If business people in SoWal and Destin are using these numbers to justify low wages....they're going to end up getting what they paid for.

Well Ho, Ho, Ho

I spoke with a friend who has just moved into a one bedroom apartment in FWB and is paying $650/month.

He looked at places between FWB and Freeport and reports that one bedrooms ranged from $400 to $800 a month, two bedrooms from $600 to $1,000 a month.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#55
Re: "LIVING" Wage for SoWal???

I guess since no one has any idea of what is a living wage in SoWal, we are drifting to the question we must first answer in order to decipher the living wage? I can tell you from what I hear on the street, long-term rent, on avg for a 3/2 in SoWal is around $1300 per mo, plus utilities. Now, lets tackle the question, (and yes, I am changing it to "living wage") what is a living wage in SoWal?
beachmouse avatar
Beach Fanatic
#56
My employer got tired of having prospective employees turn down job offers over the housing issue, and has ended up building its own apartment complex so that new faculty will at least have one affordable housing option. Right now the apartments are being described as priced below market rate, and they're within walking distance to work (nice because a working couple can get away with one car then). They're supposed to be finished with construction some time this summer. Pretty average looking small complex so far, but at least they've managed to keep a couple of the neat live oaks in the common areas. It'll be interesting to see how many people who work here take them up on the offer.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#57
My employer got tired of having prospective employees turn down job offers over the housing issue, and has ended up building its own apartment complex so that new faculty will at least have one affordable housing option. Right now the apartments are being described as priced below market rate, and they're within walking distance to work (nice because a working couple can get away with one car then). They're supposed to be finished with construction some time this summer. Pretty average looking small complex so far, but at least they've managed to keep a couple of the neat live oaks in the common areas. It'll be interesting to see how many people who work here take them up on the offer.
That sounds great and should be posted on the affordable housing thread. I started this thread so that wages in SoWal could be discussed.
SHELLY avatar
SoWal Insider
#58
Well Ho, Ho, Ho
I spoke with a friend who has just moved into a one bedroom apartment in FWB and is paying $650/month.
He looked at places between FWB and Freeport and reports that one bedrooms ranged from $400 to $800 a month, two bedrooms from $600 to $1,000 a month.

But let's take a drive from FWB to SoWal to go to work, shall we??

1) Leave FWB drive through town (past lots of Help Wanted Signs)
2) Over the Brooks bridge down Okaloosa Island (past lots of Help Wanted Signs)
3) Drive through Destin (Past LOTS of help wanted signs)
4) Drive past Destin Commons (Past lots of help wanted signs)
5) Drive past Silvershells Outlet shops (Past lots of help wanted signs)
6) Drive farther down 98 (More help wanted signs)
7) Turn onto whichever street leading down to 30A
8) Arrive at work 1 to 1-1/2 hours later (depending on traffic)

Then doing the same thing in reverse at night?? 5 times a week!

Why on earth would someone travel 65 miles round trip and burn up 3 gallons of gas (@ $2.25 - $2.50), while bypassing NUMEROUS businesses offering up job opportunities with comparable wages to the same jobs being offered along 30A? What do the places in SoWal offer that places in Ft Walton and Destin don't? What can they offer that will make the person residing in FWB drive all that way 5 times a week in hot, humid, high-summer-season traffic?

Oh...I dunno....HIGHER WAGES maybe?? :idontno:

The laws of supply and demand built SoWal up to where it is--low supply and high demand = sky-high real estate prices. Those same forces will apply to workers and wages--low supply and high demand = higher wages. What's sauce for the goose...is sauce for the waiter serving the goose.

The business folks can rationalize the problems away all they want--the rubber will meet the road when they try to find reliable, motivated and hard-working staff when summer hits and patrons waiving money want service NOW!--the managers and asst managers will be run ragged and the business owners will stand flat-footed and clueless as to why folks are not flocking to those $10-12 per hour jobs in paradise.
SHELLY avatar
SoWal Insider
#59
My employer got tired of having prospective employees turn down job offers over the housing issue, and has ended up building its own apartment complex so that new faculty will at least have one affordable housing option.

:clap_1:
SHELLY avatar
SoWal Insider
#60
http://www.legacyonthebay.com/s/homepage

4 Bedroom for $1500...not bad split 4 ways.

Condos in Destin won't even rent to people under the age of 25. I'm sure Legacy on the Bay won't be too accommodating to four 18-20 year olds sharing an apartment. Trust me on this one.
Kimmifunn avatar
Funnkalicious
#61
Condos in Destin won't even rent to people under the age of 25. I'm sure Legacy on the Bay won't be too accommodating to four 18-20 year olds sharing an apartment. Trust me on this one.
Didn't even think of that. Well that narrows it down that much more...
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#62
Shelly, post #58 is well said and very true for people choosing to live in FWB, Destin, or Niceville, and for those living in Niceville, add $5 toll to the daily drive to work. When Freeport gets built out over the next 15 years, the same will hold true for anyone coming from north of the Bay. In the future, the same will also be true for people coming from PCB.

Knowing this, let's examine the issue of someone living in SoWal in the rental house costing $1300 per month, sharing the rent with one or two other people.
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#63
But let's take a drive from FWB to SoWal to go to work, shall we??

1) Leave FWB drive through town (past lots of Help Wanted Signs)
2) Over the Brooks bridge down Okaloosa Island (past lots of Help Wanted Signs)
3) Drive through Destin (Past LOTS of help wanted signs)
4) Drive past Destin Commons (Past lots of help wanted signs)
5) Drive past Silvershells Outlet shops (Past lots of help wanted signs)
6) Drive farther down 98 (More help wanted signs)
7) Turn onto whichever street leading down to 30A
8) Arrive at work 1 to 1-1/2 hours later (depending on traffic)

Then doing the same thing in reverse at night?? 5 times a week!

Why on earth would someone travel 65 miles round trip and burn up 3 gallons of gas (@ $2.25 - $2.50), while bypassing NUMEROUS businesses offering up job opportunities with comparable wages to the same jobs being offered along 30A? What do the places in SoWal offer that places in Ft Walton and Destin don't? What can they offer that will make the person residing in FWB drive all that way 5 times a week in hot, humid, high-summer-season traffic?

Oh...I dunno....HIGHER WAGES maybe?? :idontno:


....And now that you've answered your own question, FOCUS and let's determine what that wage ought to be.
beachmouse avatar
Beach Fanatic
#64
The jobs my employer is having problems filling because of housing costs advertise starting pay of $37-$45K per year, which is in the top 25% pay-wise for those kinds of jobs in the Southeast. Granted, these are different housing and living wage expectations that the service workers, but it's a problem that goes pretty far up the wage chain.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#65
You are right BeachMouse, the problem does go up the chain. Who wants to be a manager in the service industry in SoWal when the same person could be an hourly staffer making more money without the responsibilties and headaches that come from not having staff? You would have to pay me $100K per year to take a management job like that down here, and you better not expect me to work more than 50 hours per week.
SHELLY avatar
SoWal Insider
#66
....And now that you've answered your own question, FOCUS and let's determine what that wage ought to be.

I think Joe is on the right track--the hourly wage for service workers should be based on living wages for the SoWal area--not commuting from cheaper housing areas.

There would be too high a premium that would have to be tacked on to encourage people to drive that far, in the heat, in the traffic, through areas closer to home where their skills are in high demand.

I think if businesses in SoWal want to fix this, they have 4 choices:

(1) Turn back the clock to a time before "low cost housing" was pushed out of the area

(2) Provide on-site housing for employees as part of their wages

(3) Start charging $35 for a grouper sandwich, cut their profit margin, and start paying employees enough to live in the SoWal area (with at least a 1-year binding employment contract).

(4) Open a family-run business.
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#67
Knowing this, let's examine the issue of someone living in SoWal in the rental house costing $1300 per month, sharing the rent with one or two other people.

Let's assume two people splitting that rent, or $650 each per month.

If we agree with the previous data, ie that a person's housing should equate to no more than 30% of income.....

We arrive at $2,166 monthly income, $26,000 annual, or about $12-13/hour rate.
beachmouse avatar
Beach Fanatic
#68
Add another $1-2K on top of that to pay for individual health insruance if the employer is not going to provide it.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#69
monthly housing costs per person(all costs split evenly by two people):
rent - $650 ea ($1300 split by two people)
power - $50 ea
water/sewer - $60 ea
phone - $15 ea
cable/internet - $30 ea (many people consider this a requirement for living)
renter's insurance - $50 ea
----------------------------
-Totalling $855 per month per person.
-Using the 30% method of housing costs to salary/wages, ($855/.30) = $2850 per month per person.
- This equates to $665 per week per person, which breaks down to $16.63 per person, per hour, based on a 40 hr work week. This calculation is for the entry level service employee chosing to live in the lower rent rental homes in SoWal, and sharing the home with another person.
**************************************************
If someone wanted to live alone in SoWal in smaller home, he or she could expect rent to be cheaper, but will be carrying all of the expenses. I think he or she could expect the following monthly expenses:

rent - $1000
power - $80
water/sewer - $45
phone - $35
cable/internet - $30 (probably get nothing more than basic cable to save)
renter's insurance - $75
-----------------------
-Totalling $1265 per month per person.
-Using the 30% method of housing costs to salary/wages, ($1265/.30) = $4217 per month.
- This equates to $984 per week, which breaks down to $24.50 per hour based on a 40 hr work week.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As I mentioned before, this is a starting level. There are a limited number of rentals available at this price, and these examples given are the cheaper rents currently on the market.

Please keep in mind that we have not even calculated income taxes in this scenerio. These calculations are pre-taxed dollars, but we all know that taxes are deducted on every pay check in the real world.

Obviously, tipped employees could be okay with lower hourly pay from the employers as long as their tipped average wages were => those I mention.

I hope you guys remember this the next time you moan and groan about the prices of things at the beach. The entry level workers are the ones taking the hits so that other people can get the services they want.

I don't eat out all the time, I could never afford to do so, but if I cannot leave a fat tip, and I am not talking about 20%, I don't eat out. ;-)

Again, I am not saying we need a minimum wage of such numbers, just that if employers want to attract and keep employees, they should look closely at the numbers posted above to establish a minimum.

Presently, I am not about to calculate the salary needed for a mid-level manager who wants to buy the starter home, costing $300K in SoWal. If someone else wants to do so, be sure to include the cost of homeowner's insurance and taxes. The calculation is easy, but most of you will freak out when you see the minimum salary needed.
florida girl avatar
Beach Fanatic
#70
I think Shelly has hit on a real problem here, however I don't think all the data is being shared. I'm not sure raising the minimum wage is the cure, but a patch on the symptom. If you go north, into the area where most of the workers live you will find the problem. A large percentage of the work force working for little more than minimum wage are not the children of the middle class, they are the sole wage earner for the family, often including the care of an elderly parent who is trying to survive on only their social security income. These jobs are great for the children of the middle class, but where is the middle class??? What is needed is an indepth study of what the largest employers actually pay ie the county in particular, as they set the standard often times with the rest of the employers in the county. I think you'll find that their wages are grieviously low. They are conserned about comparing themselves with the neighboring counties instead of doing their own research as to what Walton county needs are. Our county has broken the mold, and has too many variables. Look around at who is actually working at your neighborhood gas station, or the grocery store, or Walmart, or where ever it is you travel; they are not teenagers, or students, they are older people. Generally you think parents would be living on a retirement pension from the company they worked for, but do you see any company like that here? No. I sometimes think that the people that move here do so to get away from their children, knowing that the children can't afford to live here on the wages that are available. I feel the solution is to bring in larger more stable companies that pay a better wage. I don't think that there is an imediate fix, but things must start moving in that direction. As far as bringing in immigrants, as long as employers can do this and get government perks for it, wages and conditions will never be better for our people. They don't have to improve. Although you basically get what you pay for.
SHELLY avatar
SoWal Insider
#71
I think the 30% figure includes all costs for housing, including rent, utilities, renter's insurance, etc. Also remember that this calculation is based on zero income tax.

Shelly, I know you are somewhat kidding, but regarding #3 on your list, please keep in mind the effects of charging $35 for a grouper sandwich. The restaurant will lose many customers to Publix and cooking at home, thereby causing the business to lay off people, and bring in less gross income, eventually closing the business all together.

In a way it I wasn't kidding about the $35 sandwich. Laying off people will be the least of the worries (as decent service workers will remain in high demand from Biloxi to SoWal). The tragedy will be for the business owners losing their livelihood and the visitors having to travel to Destin :shock: or PCB 😱 in search of entertainment and a meal. It's the price SoWal now must pay for its rush to gentrification.
SHELLY avatar
SoWal Insider
#72
Let's assume two people splitting that rent, or $650 each per month.

If we agree with the previous data, ie that a person's housing should equate to no more than 30% of income.....

We arrive at $2,166 monthly income, $26,000 annual, or about $12-13/hour rate.

TWT,

I can tell you are totally convinced that $12.50 is the magic number that will attract employees to SoWal businesses.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#73
TWT,

I can tell you are totally convinced that $12.50 is the magic number that will attract employees to SoWal businesses.
Shelly, I don't think TWT is at all convinced as such. He has a geniune concern and question. Even if one calculates the wage based on all of the factors mentioned, there are only so many homes to rent at the price I mention, and many more employees needed. Also, not everyone want to rent. Perhaps we should also look at the cost of buying a home in SoWal and looking at wages based on that too.

To clarify, we are not trying to set a minimum wage, but simply trying to find the hourly wage point where people can live and work in SoWal in order to keep services coming and businesses open.
Beach Fanatic
#74
Florida Girl - your profile shows your occupation as low income housing owner - can you give us some specifics to help out the discussion? What is your experience with rents and where are yours located?
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#75
TWT,

I can tell you are totally convinced that $12.50 is the magic number that will attract employees to SoWal businesses.

Nope

Experience in life has taught me there are rarely single solutions to any problem; and for that matter that any problem exists in isolation without influence from other issues.

As I am interested in all these related issues, I am mearly trying to push this discussion along.

And Shelly, when I said FOCUS - I didn't mean on me. I know my avatar is cute and all, and I'm very flattered but it would be better to focus on the issue at hand.

If you disagree with the $12.50/hour figure, present a line of reasoning and facts to push the discussion along.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal ExpertAuthor
#76
See post #69. Apparently, I edited it instead of posting a new post. :oops: oops!

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